# Another Letter Of Joost Verkindert, Written To His Dear Wife, And, Generally, To All Brethren And Sisters In The Lord; In Which An Account Is Given Of Several Disputations Held With The Bishop’S Commissary Concerning The Faith. · Page 3 of 5 [Previous page: ANOTHER LETTER OF JOOST VERKINDERT, WRITTEN TO HIS DEAR WIFE, AND, GENERALLY, TO ALL BRETHREN AND SISTERS IN THE LORD; IN WHICH AN ACCOUNT IS GIVEN OF SEVERAL DISPUTATIONS HELD WITH THE BISHOP’S COMMISSARY CONCERNING THE FAITH.](/en/stories/mm-another-letter-of-joost-verkindert-written-to-his-dear-wife-and-generally-to-all-brethren-and-sisters-in-the-lord-in-whi/part-2/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: ANOTHER LETTER OF JOOST VERKINDERT, WRITTEN TO HIS DEAR WIFE, AND, GENERALLY, TO ALL BRETHREN AND SISTERS IN THE LORD; IN WHICH AN ACCOUNT IS GIVEN OF SEVERAL DISPUTATIONS HELD WITH THE BISHOP’S COMMISSARY CONCERNING THE FAITH.](/en/stories/mm-another-letter-of-joost-verkindert-written-to-his-dear-wife-and-generally-to-all-brethren-and-sisters-in-the-lord-in-whi/part-4/) We then also spoke of infant baptism, which he would prove to be a command of Christ, namely, because Christ says: “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5. In this passage he would also include the children, namely, in the expression, a man.[321](/en/stories/mm-footnotes/part-17/#Footnote_321) I then made him read that chapter, in a Bible which was there, namely: “There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: the same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” I then asked him, whether he knew and understood what it was to be born from above; and also said, that a child could not be born from above; but that Christ thereby meant persons that had understanding. “Yes,” said he, “and infants too,” and fell back on his old proposition, and held fast to it, namely: “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,” etc. And he also quoted Paul and Titus, that Christ cleansed his church with the washing of water by the word. Eph. 5:26. Thereupon I answered that Paul thereby did not mean children. He would also establish it with John’s epistle, namely, that there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one; and three witnesses on earth: the spirit, the water, and the blood: and these three are one (1 John 5:7,8); to which he added, that infants must be cleansed from original sin through baptism. I told him, that infants are cleansed from their original sin through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. For Paul says: Even as by the unrighteousness of one man death entered into the world, so grace much more abounded by Christ Jesus; and as in Adam all die, even so in Christ are all made alive again. Rom. 5:17; 1 Cor. 15:22. Also, that the prophet says, that the child shall not bear the iniquity of its father. Ezek. 18:20. He said: It is true, this grace has come upon all men: but that children must nevertheless be baptized, if they were to be saved; and he made a great many words which had a fair semblance. Then I asked him, whether infants were saved by the water. He replied: “When they are baptized with water, they receive the Holy Ghost,” and are then redeemed by the blood of Christ; which he established with the three witnesses on earth, namely, the spirit, the water, and the blood; and upon this he strenuously insisted. I told him, that he rejected and disesteemed with his infant baptism the blood of Christ, with which he was not well satisfied. I then asked him, whether baptism was not a burial of sin. He replied: “Yes.” I said, again, that infants had not committed sin, and that they were simple and innocent. But it was all of no avail; children must be baptized, for this had been practiced from the time of the apostles. I asked him again, whether the apostles had baptized children. He answered, that they had baptized entire households, among which there might probably also have been infants. I said, that the households had addicted themselves to the ministry (1 Cor. 16:15), which children could not do, but it is necessary to minister to them; nevertheless he adhered to what he had said. I asked him, if there were a woman that had two infants, and one of them were baptized, and the other died without baptism, what he held in regard to this. He answered: “The baptized infant would be saved, and the unbaptized one not.” I said, that the blood of Christ had more efficacy than their baptism, and that they also baptized those to whom it did not belong; for Christ has commanded to baptize believers, and not infants, and has also commanded the baptized to keep his commandments. I also said that they were dear with baptism, but that it had no efficacy. He therefore made many words, for he wanted to establish infant baptism also with circumcision. But I proved to him, that the figure was not applicable thereto: also, that only the male children, and not the female, were circumcised. But it was all of no avail, it had to be a figure of baptism, and as the uncircumcised soul had to be cut off from the people 820 of Israel, he said, so should also the unbaptized be damned; which I contradicted him with divers Scriptures. He said: “Joos, it seems to me, that you understand it better than you pretend; for I have certainly proved to you plainly enough that infants must be baptized.” I answered him and said: “My lord, think not that I would contradict you against my mind and understanding, when I am in such severe confinement.” And thus we had to be poor and miserable men; and we had many other words together regarding baptism; but we could not agree on this point. When he had waited a little with speaking, he said: “Joos, you have suffered yourself to be lamentably deceived.” I told him, that I had the truth, nor had I suffered myself to be deceived; asking him, whether it was not his opinion, that we should from this fire go into the eternal. “O,” said he, “that is beyond a doubt.” “I have a better hope,” said I, “and should fain see also you come to a better knowledge.” When he heard this, he ceased a little, as though he were startled and terrified, and he pitied us greatly, and I saw that he meant it from the heart. ## Original source [Read this passage on Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/65855/pg65855-images.html#FNanchor_321) [Edition details](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/65855) [Previous page: ANOTHER LETTER OF JOOST VERKINDERT, WRITTEN TO HIS DEAR WIFE, AND, GENERALLY, TO ALL BRETHREN AND SISTERS IN THE LORD; IN WHICH AN ACCOUNT IS GIVEN OF SEVERAL DISPUTATIONS HELD WITH THE BISHOP’S COMMISSARY CONCERNING THE FAITH.](/en/stories/mm-another-letter-of-joost-verkindert-written-to-his-dear-wife-and-generally-to-all-brethren-and-sisters-in-the-lord-in-whi/part-2/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: ANOTHER LETTER OF JOOST VERKINDERT, WRITTEN TO HIS DEAR WIFE, AND, GENERALLY, TO ALL BRETHREN AND SISTERS IN THE LORD; IN WHICH AN ACCOUNT IS GIVEN OF SEVERAL DISPUTATIONS HELD WITH THE BISHOP’S COMMISSARY CONCERNING THE FAITH.](/en/stories/mm-another-letter-of-joost-verkindert-written-to-his-dear-wife-and-generally-to-all-brethren-and-sisters-in-the-lord-in-whi/part-4/) --- Page: https://history.truechristian.church/en/stories/mm-another-letter-of-joost-verkindert-written-to-his-dear-wife-and-generally-to-all-brethren-and-sisters-in-the-lord-in-whi/part-3/ [Contribute a correction or addition](https://github.com/trueChristian/history.truechristian.church/issues/new?title=Correction%3A+Another+Letter+Of+Joost+Verkindert%2C+Written+To+His+Dear+Wife%2C+And%2C+Generally%2C+To+All+Brethren+And+Sisters+In+The+Lord%3B+In+Which+An+Account+Is+Given+Of+Several+Disputations+Held+With+The+Bishop%E2%80%99S+Commissary+Concerning+The+Faith.+%C2%B7+Page+3+of+5&body=%23%23+Page+or+topic%0AAnother+Letter+Of+Joost+Verkindert%2C+Written+To+His+Dear+Wife%2C+And%2C+Generally%2C+To+All+Brethren+And+Sisters+In+The+Lord%3B+In+Which+An+Account+Is+Given+Of+Several+Disputations+Held+With+The+Bishop%E2%80%99S+Commissary+Concerning+The+Faith.+%C2%B7+Page+3+of+5%0A%0APage%3A+https%3A%2F%2Fhistory.truechristian.church%2Fen%2Fstories%2Fmm-another-letter-of-joost-verkindert-written-to-his-dear-wife-and-generally-to-all-brethren-and-sisters-in-the-lord-in-whi%2Fpart-3%2F%0A%0ARecord%3A+mm-another-letter-of-joost-verkindert-written-to-his-dear-wife-and-generally-to-all-brethren-and-sisters-in-the-lord-in-whi--b00009-o000000%0A%0ADate+currently+shown%3A+16th+century+%28source+section%29%0A%0A%23%23+Correction+or+addition%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Sources+and+evidence%0APlease+include+book%2Fpage+references%2C+archive+links%2C+or+first-hand+documentation.%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Image+credit+%28if+applicable%29%0ACreator%2C+source%2C+and+permission+or+public-domain+basis.%0A%0A%0A%0ASubmitted+for+review%3B+this+issue+does+not+publish+changes+automatically.)