# Disputation Between Herman Vleckwijk, Imprisoned By The Lords Of The Country Van Den Vrye In Bruges, And Friar Cornelis, In The Presence Of Mr. Jan Van Dam, On The 1oth Of May, A. D. 1569. · Page 13 of 16 [Previous page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN HERMAN VLECKWIJK, IMPRISONED BY THE LORDS OF THE COUNTRY VAN DEN VRYE IN BRUGES, AND FRIAR CORNELIS, IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAM, ON THE 1OTH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-12/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN HERMAN VLECKWIJK, IMPRISONED BY THE LORDS OF THE COUNTRY VAN DEN VRYE IN BRUGES, AND FRIAR CORNELIS, IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAM, ON THE 1OTH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-14/) Fr. Corn. Yea, in troth, and should we not? Ah, bah, the Holy Ghost taught and spoke just as well through the fathers in the worthy council of Trent, as through the fathers in the council of Nice. Bah, what need is there of asking this question? have you nothing else to ask me? Bah, I well perceive that you would fain drop the subject concerning the mother of God. Herm. I had to ask this in order to hear your confession in regard to it; for now I know by the council of Trent all the other councils, because I have in my time heard and seen how things went at the former council, which mocks and puts to shame all previous councils. Fr. Corn. O you hellish, devilish; accursed Trinitarian, you blaspheme the Holy Ghost. It is a wonder that we do not all together with you sink into the earth. My lords, I am absolutely afraid to speak any longer with this Beelzebubian Anabaptist, Sacramentarian and Trinitarian, and enemy of the mother of God, that I am. Recorder. Can you not keep still in regard to these things, Herman, as we requested of you? Herm. I do not blaspheme the Holy Ghost, nor am I an enemy of the mother of Christ. 761 Fr. Corn. Bah, do you not blaspheme the Holy Ghost, when you ridicule, vilify and deride the worthy council of Trent, and all the previous holy councils? and will not call the worthy, holy, blessed virgin Mary the mother of God, as the holy council of Nice teaches and commands us to do? Bah, are you not then a blasphemer of the Holy Ghost, and an enemy of the mother of God, eh? Herm. You papists were so presumptuous in your council of Nice, that you dared call the mother of Jesus Christ the mother of God, whom neither the apostles nor the evangelists dared call the mother of the Son of God. Fr. Corn. O you damned, devilish Anabaptist, you hellish Trinitarian, Sacramentarian and deadly enemy of the blessed mother of God, we will call her the mother of God in spite of your teeth, and she is too the mother of God. Yea, she is the mother of God, that she is? Herm. You said yourself that there are three persons in the holy Trinity, the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost, and that these three persons are but one true God. If Mary then is the mother of this true God, then she is just as well the mother of the Father and of the Holy Ghost, and of the Son. Fr. Corn. O you devilish heretic, I have proved to you from the symbol of Athanasius, that the Father is God, and that the Son is God, and that the Holy Ghost is God, and that there are nevertheless not three gods, but that these three are one true, inseparable God, see. Herm. If these three are not each a distinct, separate God, but if the three are but one true inseparable God, and if Mary is the mother of God, then she must be the mother of all three, or the three must each be a separate God. Where are you now with your council of Nice? Fr. Corn. Bah, may the fire of hell burn you, you wicked, evil, vile, false, crafty Trinitarian; the devil wags your accursed tongue. Bah, you would drive an hundred thousand doctors of divinity mad and crazy. Jesus, Jesus, worthy mother of God, how you are reviled, despised and rejected by this hellish devil’s brood, But in good faith, how would you have her called—Maeyken Timmermans,[311](/en/stories/mm-footnotes/part-16/#Footnote_311) as you call her in your hellish, devilish sermons in the Gruthuysbosch, eh? Herm. We call her the mother of Jesus, as she is called in the Scriptures, And how can you say that we revile, despise and reject her? Fr. Corn. O you accursed Anabaptist, I will drop this, that you will not call her the mother of God; but is this not odious reviling, despising and rejecting, that your arch-heretic, Menno Symons writes, that Christ did not assume the sinful earthly seed of Mary, but that he came with flesh and blood, with skin and hair, from heaven, into Mary, and thus became man, and that he merely passed through her body, as water through a sieve, or through a spout;—bah, is this not reviling blaspheming, despising and rejecting? Herm. You do not understand what Menno Simons writes; for what you here say, cannot be found in his writings; but he shows with many Scriptures, that the Word became flesh (as John writes in his first chapter), and not the seed of Mary. Fr. Corn. Ah, bah, was Christ then not born of the seed of David according to the promise; which seed he assumed in the blessed virgin Mary, of her most pure blood, and of that became flesh and man, eh? ## Original source [Read this passage on Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/65855/pg65855-images.html#Page_761) [Edition details](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/65855) [Previous page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN HERMAN VLECKWIJK, IMPRISONED BY THE LORDS OF THE COUNTRY VAN DEN VRYE IN BRUGES, AND FRIAR CORNELIS, IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAM, ON THE 1OTH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-12/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN HERMAN VLECKWIJK, IMPRISONED BY THE LORDS OF THE COUNTRY VAN DEN VRYE IN BRUGES, AND FRIAR CORNELIS, IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAM, ON THE 1OTH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-14/) --- Page: https://history.truechristian.church/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-13/ [Contribute a correction or addition](https://github.com/trueChristian/history.truechristian.church/issues/new?title=Correction%3A+Disputation+Between+Herman+Vleckwijk%2C+Imprisoned+By+The+Lords+Of+The+Country+Van+Den+Vrye+In+Bruges%2C+And+Friar+Cornelis%2C+In+The+Presence+Of+Mr.+Jan+Van+Dam%2C+On+The+1oth+Of+May%2C+A.+D.+1569.+%C2%B7+Page+13+of+16&body=%23%23+Page+or+topic%0ADisputation+Between+Herman+Vleckwijk%2C+Imprisoned+By+The+Lords+Of+The+Country+Van+Den+Vrye+In+Bruges%2C+And+Friar+Cornelis%2C+In+The+Presence+Of+Mr.+Jan+Van+Dam%2C+On+The+1oth+Of+May%2C+A.+D.+1569.+%C2%B7+Page+13+of+16%0A%0APage%3A+https%3A%2F%2Fhistory.truechristian.church%2Fen%2Fstories%2Fmm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in%2Fpart-13%2F%0A%0ARecord%3A+mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in--b00337-o000000%0A%0ADate+currently+shown%3A+1569%0A%0A%23%23+Correction+or+addition%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Sources+and+evidence%0APlease+include+book%2Fpage+references%2C+archive+links%2C+or+first-hand+documentation.%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Image+credit+%28if+applicable%29%0ACreator%2C+source%2C+and+permission+or+public-domain+basis.%0A%0A%0A%0ASubmitted+for+review%3B+this+issue+does+not+publish+changes+automatically.)