# Disputation Between Herman Vleckwijk, Imprisoned By The Lords Of The Country Van Den Vrye In Bruges, And Friar Cornelis, In The Presence Of Mr. Jan Van Dam, On The 1oth Of May, A. D. 1569. · Page 7 of 16 [Previous page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN HERMAN VLECKWIJK, IMPRISONED BY THE LORDS OF THE COUNTRY VAN DEN VRYE IN BRUGES, AND FRIAR CORNELIS, IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAM, ON THE 1OTH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-6/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN HERMAN VLECKWIJK, IMPRISONED BY THE LORDS OF THE COUNTRY VAN DEN VRYE IN BRUGES, AND FRIAR CORNELIS, IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAM, ON THE 1OTH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-8/) Fr. Corn. Bah, there had to be miracles then, when the people did not believe yet, in order that they might believe the apostles; do you understand this, you stupid Anabaptist? Herm. If Christ had commanded you to imitate such laying on of hands, he would also do those miracles through you. Hence, when your bishops do such miracles with their confirmation and imposition of hands, then I shall believe you too. Fr. Corn. Tush, tush, tush, these are the same arguments and chatterings which also your accursed hedge-preacher advanced yesterday against the sacrament of confirmation, and the sacrament of extreme unction. Bah, though Christ himself did not command us to imitate it, the apostles commanded us to do it; for does not St. James, in the fifth chapter, command that when any one is sick, the priests of the church are to be sent for, to pray over him, and to anoint him with oil, eh? Herm. The oil of which James writes must have been another oil than your oil; for with that the sick were anointed, that they should recover from their sickness, and they did recover from it. But you priests do the very opposite; for if you knew beforehand, that the sick should recover, and not die, you would not anoint them with oil; for you anoint no sick persons with oil except those who you think will die. Fr. Corn. Bah, my lords, did I not well know, that it would be the same thing which it was yesterday with their hedge-preacher? Bah, I lay you a wager, that if I begin to prove to him, from the same fifth chapter of St. James, the sacrament of confession, he will also say, as his hedge-preacher said yesterday, that I also ought to confess my sins to him; just see, with what we are tormented and vexed. Herm. Did this seem to you so strange an answer from him? for it is nevertheless written: “Confess your sins one to another.” But when you priests learn from people all that you wish to know, then you let them go, and do not yourselves confess to them who have confessed (as you call it) their sins to you. Fr. Corn. Yes, we call it confession, and it is confession, and shall remain confession, in spite of your teeth. Ah, bah, would it not be a fine thing, if we priests also had to kneel down and confess ourselves to the laity; and would they have the power to absolve us from sin? I suppose so. Bah, what a fine absolution that would be! Bah, and if I here confess myself to you, would you be so presumptuous as to think that you have power to loose or forgive my sins, eh? Herm. Such power as you or all priests have to forgive sin, all men have; for Christ says, Mark 11:25: “Forgive, if ye have aught against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.” Again, Luke 6:37: “Forgive, and ye shall be forgiven.” Fr. Corn. O you accursed Anabaptist, have you laymen priestly authority to forgive sin in confession? Bah, the forgiveness of sin of which Christ speaks, Mark 11; Luke 6, does not concern confession or absolution. * * * Bah, we priests have in the sacrament of confession and absolution a special priestly authority to forgive and to retain sin, that we do. Herm. Whence do you priests get a special authority to forgive sin, more than we, whom you call laymen? Fr. Corn. Bah, this special authority which Christ delivered to his vicar, St. Peter, and St. Peter left it to his vicars the popes, and the popes impart to us of that power, because they cannot themselves in person everywhere hear confession, and absolve, see. Herm. That the popes and you priests have the special power to forgive and to retain sin, which Christ gave to Peter, this you will not be able to show to me with the holy Scriptures. Fr. Corn. Indeed? O you accursed Anabaptist, the executioner will be able very well to show it to you, by kindling a good fire * * * and the very devils in hell will also well show it to you with burning pitch, brimstone, and tar in the fire of hell; this I swear to you, that I do. Herm. You papists can demonstrate your faith, doctrine and religion with nothing better than with the executioner, and with sword, fire, rope and gallows; for these are the best demonstrations or proofs which you have, and thus your forefathers demonstrated their faith and doctrine to God’s prophets, to Christ, to his apostles, and to the saints of God, from the blood of Abel until now. Fr. Corn. Ha, you hellish, devilish, damned, accursed Anabaptists, for what do you take our holy fathers the popes and us priests? may thunder and lightning kill, burn and pulverize you. Bah, that I 757 should thus excite, exasperate and disquiet myself for such an accursed Anabaptist. ## Original source [Read this passage on Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/65855/pg65855-images.html#Page_757) [Edition details](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/65855) [Previous page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN HERMAN VLECKWIJK, IMPRISONED BY THE LORDS OF THE COUNTRY VAN DEN VRYE IN BRUGES, AND FRIAR CORNELIS, IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAM, ON THE 1OTH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-6/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN HERMAN VLECKWIJK, IMPRISONED BY THE LORDS OF THE COUNTRY VAN DEN VRYE IN BRUGES, AND FRIAR CORNELIS, IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAM, ON THE 1OTH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-8/) --- Page: https://history.truechristian.church/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in/part-7/ [Contribute a correction or addition](https://github.com/trueChristian/history.truechristian.church/issues/new?title=Correction%3A+Disputation+Between+Herman+Vleckwijk%2C+Imprisoned+By+The+Lords+Of+The+Country+Van+Den+Vrye+In+Bruges%2C+And+Friar+Cornelis%2C+In+The+Presence+Of+Mr.+Jan+Van+Dam%2C+On+The+1oth+Of+May%2C+A.+D.+1569.+%C2%B7+Page+7+of+16&body=%23%23+Page+or+topic%0ADisputation+Between+Herman+Vleckwijk%2C+Imprisoned+By+The+Lords+Of+The+Country+Van+Den+Vrye+In+Bruges%2C+And+Friar+Cornelis%2C+In+The+Presence+Of+Mr.+Jan+Van+Dam%2C+On+The+1oth+Of+May%2C+A.+D.+1569.+%C2%B7+Page+7+of+16%0A%0APage%3A+https%3A%2F%2Fhistory.truechristian.church%2Fen%2Fstories%2Fmm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in%2Fpart-7%2F%0A%0ARecord%3A+mm-disputation-between-herman-vleckwijk-imprisoned-by-the-lords-of-the-country-van-den-vrye-in-bruges-and-friar-cornelis-in--b00175-o000000%0A%0ADate+currently+shown%3A+1569%0A%0A%23%23+Correction+or+addition%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Sources+and+evidence%0APlease+include+book%2Fpage+references%2C+archive+links%2C+or+first-hand+documentation.%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Image+credit+%28if+applicable%29%0ACreator%2C+source%2C+and+permission+or+public-domain+basis.%0A%0A%0A%0ASubmitted+for+review%3B+this+issue+does+not+publish+changes+automatically.)