# Disputation Between Herman Vleckwijk, Imprisoned By The Lords Of The Country Van Den Vrye In Bruges, And Friar Cornelis, In The Presence Of Mr. Jan Van Dam, On The 1oth Of May, A. D. 1569. · Page 8 of 16

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Clerk of the criminal court. Tush, tush, Father
Cornelis, and Herman, speak gently with each
other.

Fr. Corn. Yes indeed, be gentle towards such
bedeviled, bewitched, heretics, who do not believe
anything. In good faith, do you Anabaptists then
go thus unconfessed and unabsolved to your supper?
I suppose so; for you regard it but as a bit of simple
common bread, and a little draught of common, flat
wine. The transubstantiation in the sacrament of
the altar with you is only popery, yea, sorcery, and
we priests are regarded as sorcerers by you, because
we adjure and conjure the true flesh and blood of
Christ in the host and in the cup, as you Sacramentarians
say, ill betide you.

Herm. Such confession, or absolution, or sacrament
of the altar we do not use in our church, but
we observe such forgiveness of sins, as Christ commands
us, Mark 11; and Luke 6, and such breaking
of bread, and distribution of the cup, as he in
his last supper commands us to do for his remembrance.

Fr. Corn. Bah, but with that forgiveness of sins
Christ means this when your neighbor has done
aught amiss to you; but I ask concerning the sins
which you people have sinned against God, whether
you go with these unconfessed and unabsolved to
your devil’s supper, eh?

Herm. We pray as Christ has taught us, Matthew
6:12. “Forgive us our debts, as we forgive
our debtors.” And we use no devil’s supper.

Fr. Corn. Your breaking of bread, and distribution
of the cup is the devil’s supper of which Paul
writes in the tenth chapter of his first epistle to
the Corinthians: Ye cannot drink the cup of the
Lord, and the cup of devils; ye cannot be partakers
of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils. But
the cup of blessing which we bless, that is, we Catholics,
is it not the communion of the blood of Christ?
The bread which we break, is it not the communion
of the body of Christ? Bah, and is your bit of
bread, and your cup with a little draught of flat
wine not a devil’s supper? for you sacramentarians
do not bless your cup, nor do you consecrate your
bit of bread, but it is wine and bread, and remains
wine and bread; bah, let us hear what you can answer
against this, that will be conclusive.

Herm. In regard to this, I must ask you, whether
you yourself believe, that Christ in his last supper
meant no other body or flesh, and no other blood,
than that which was to be broken and shed on the
cross for the remission of sins.

Fr. Corn. Ah, bah, and should I not believe this?
this is quite Catholic, that it is.

Herm. Well you will certainly also confess, I
think, that the bread which the apostles ate at the
supper was not crucified.

Fr. Corn. Bah, what hellish, devilish, heretical
question is this; never in all the days of my life did
I hear such a deep question. Bah, I believe and
know very well, that the apostles ate the same body
or flesh of Jesus Christ, which the day after the supper
was to be crucified, see.

Herm. Therefore, poor man, you do not understand
the sense or meaning of Christ, though Paul
in the tenth chapter of the first epistle to the Corinthians
very clearly explains the same, saying:
“Behold Israel after the flesh; are not they which
eat of the sacrifice partakers of the altar? Thus also
are we in the eating of the bread, and in the drinking
of the wine, partakers of the body and blood of
Christ.

Fr. Corn. Bah, you accursed Sacramentarian,
would you compare the flesh of God to the rotten
flesh of oxen, and the lousy flesh of sheep, and to
the rotten, putrid flesh of goats and other beasts and
carrions? * * * Bah, fie, what abominable and horrible
heresy is this?

Herm. You understand neither Paul nor me; for
what I say is this, that Paul by this comparison of
the sacrifices of the altar (which the Jews ate, and
thereby became partakers of the sacrifice in the remission
of sins) explains and expounds the communion
or participation of the broken bread and of
the cup of wine (which we eat and drink in remembrance
of the body and blood of Christ), that we
thus also become partakers in the washing from
sins through the body and blood of Christ, which
he offered up for the sins of the world.

Fr. Corn. Ah, bah, see, now I plainly understand
your heretical, Sacramentarian meaning, that
you only make comparisons and memorials of the
flesh and blood of Christ. Eh, accursed Anabaptist,
why then does St. Paul say, in the eleventh chapter
of his first epistle to the Corinthians: “Wherefore
whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup
of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body
and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself,
and so let him eat of that bread and drink of
that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily,
eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not
discerning the Lord’s body.” Bah, answer me once
to this, you accursed Sacramentarian that you are.



## Original source

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