# Disputation Between Jacob De Keersgieter And Mr. Friar Cornelis, A Franciscan Monk; In The Presence Of Mr. Jan Van Damme, Recorder, And Mr. Michiel Houwaert, Clerk Of The Criminal Court, On The 9th Of May, A. D. 1569.306 · Page 2 of 13

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Jac. I too believe that Paul thereby means antichrist.
But does not the Pope of Rome do the very
works of antichrist? Does he not command you,
that you are not to marry? Does he not command
you to abstain from meats which God hath created
to be received with thanksgiving of them which be
743lieve?
as Paul writes in the fourth chapter of his first
epistle to Timothy.

Fr. Corn. The devil sits in your cheeks; the devil
and his mother play with your ugly mouth, that you
know how to twist all the holy Scriptures according
to your heretical notions, and to turn them on your
thumb. But just wait, I shall show you very well,
that our holy father the Pope is the vicar of God:
for did not Christ say to St. Peter; “Feed my
sheep;” and that upon him he would build his
church? And did he not also give to St. Peter the
keys of heaven, and all priestly authority, to loose
from sin, and to bind, or to remit and to retain?
And do not the holy popes sit upon the same seat,
as successors of St. Peter, and have the same command
and the priestly authority of the keys of
heaven, to forgive sins and to retain them, through
absolution after confession? What do you say to
this now? let us hear.

Jac. Christ said, that upon this rock (that is, upon
such a faith as Peter confessed, Matt. 17:16) he
would build his church; he said nothing about a
seat, or of vicars, or of successors, or popes, or of
priestly authority.

Fr. Corn. He certainly spoke of the keys of
heaven, and of loosing and binding. And if there
were no pope, or high priest, nor sub-priests who
then should have the authority, to hear confession,
to absolve, and to forgive sins? scavengers, etc., I
suppose.

Jac. Christ is our only true high-priest, as Paul
writes to the Hebrews, in the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th,
8th, and 9th chapters.

Fr. Corn. That is just where I wanted to have
you; for if St. Paul thereby means that besides
Christ no other high priests or common priests are
necessary, why then does he say in the fourth chapter
of the first epistle to the Corinthians: I will that
every one so account of us, as of Christ’s priests
over the sacraments of God? that is, administer the
sacraments of the altar, of baptism, of confirmation,
of extreme unction, of marriage, of confession and
absolution, of penitence, and of consecrating and
anointing priests. What do you hold concerning
priestly estate, or the sacrament of the priesthood?
Let us hear.

Jac. Next to Christ, we believers in Christ are
all priests alike, according to the words of Peter in
the second chapter (9th verse) of his first epistle,
where he says to the believers in Christ: “But ye
are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy
nation.” Again, Rev. 1:5,6: “Christ who loved
us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
and hath made us kings and priests unto God and
his Father.” Again, Rev. 5:9,10: “For thou wast
slain, and hast redeemed us [to God] by thy blood
out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and
nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and
priests.”

Fr. Corn. Tush, tush! now you begin to preach
again, do you? keep silence, or reply to me in
regard to what St. Paul writes in the fourth chapter
of his first epistle to the Corinthians: I will that
every one so account of us, as of Christ’s priests
over the sacraments of God. Answer to this. * * *

Jac. With your permission, Paul does not write
as you say, and hence there is nothing to answer
to it.

Fr. Corn. O you cursed Anabaptist that you
are; I could swear by the saints, that St. Paul writes
as I say: what do you say of this accursed, hellish,
devilish heretic?

Jac. The Lord God forgive you this judging and
cursing, and do not account it to your own condemnation.
Christ also says (Matt. 5), do not swear
an oath; but let your communication be, Yea, yea,
Nay, nay.

Fr. Corn. Bah, this means that one is not to
swear a false oath; but what I would swear is true.
But you Anabaptists also have the fancy, that you
are not to swear any manner of oaths. Bah, what
a lousy fancy this is! I should like to hear why one
may not swear a good oath.

Jac. Because Christ, in Matt. 5, says: “Ye have
heard that it hath been said to them of old time,
Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform
unto the Lord thine oaths: but I say unto you,
Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s
throne: nor by the earth; for it is his footstool.
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay,
nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh
of evil.” In like manner, also James says, in the
fifth chapter (v. 12): “But above all things, my
brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by
the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your
yea be yea; and your nay, nay: lest you fall into
condemnation.”



## Original source

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