# Disputation Between Jacob De Keersgieter And Mr. Friar Cornelis, A Franciscan Monk; In The Presence Of Mr. Jan Van Damme, Recorder, And Mr. Michiel Houwaert, Clerk Of The Criminal Court, On The 9th Of May, A. D. 1569.306 · Page 9 of 13 [Previous page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN JACOB DE KEERSGIETER AND MR. FRIAR CORNELIS, A FRANCISCAN MONK; IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAMME, RECORDER, AND MR. MICHIEL HOUWAERT, CLERK OF THE CRIMINAL COURT, ON THE 9TH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.306](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-jacob-de-keersgieter-and-mr-friar-cornelis-a-franciscan-monk-in-the-presence-of-mr-jan-van-damme-rec/part-8/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN JACOB DE KEERSGIETER AND MR. FRIAR CORNELIS, A FRANCISCAN MONK; IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAMME, RECORDER, AND MR. MICHIEL HOUWAERT, CLERK OF THE CRIMINAL COURT, ON THE 9TH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.306](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-jacob-de-keersgieter-and-mr-friar-cornelis-a-franciscan-monk-in-the-presence-of-mr-jan-van-damme-rec/part-10/) Fr. Corn. Ah, bah, now I understand clearly, out and out, that you Anabaptists are so wicked, false, vile and crafty sacramentarians, as the * * * calves-tails can be; for the sacrament with you is nothing but a representation, signification and remembrance of the body and blood of Christ, and only a bit of bread and a cup of wine. I * * * upon your bit of bread, and your cup, by which you would represent, signify and remember the body of Christ, see. Jac. I beg pardon, this is strange language concerning the ordinance of Christ; for he has nevertheless instituted the breaking of the bread and the drinking of the cup for our remembrance. But if the bread is Christ himself, as you say, how shall it be to us a remembrance of Christ, who, according to your saying, is present there himself? And if you get so angry at me, because I called the communion only bread and the cup, you must also be very angry at Paul, because, 1 Cor. 11:26, he writes: “As often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup,” etc. Fr. Corn. Silence! not so much talk; hold your tongue. For though St. Paul calls the sacrament of the altar so, it was nevertheless Christ himself, as he was born of his blessed mother, and died on the cross, see. Jac. This is a strange notion of yours; for if it is Christ himself as he died on the cross, then it must also be Christ himself as he rose from the dead, and ascended up to heaven. Fr. Corn. Yea, in troth, and as he sits at the right hand of his Father, see. Jac. Why then did Paul say to the Corinthians: “As often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, shew ye the Lord’s death till he come?” For if the bread had been Christ himself, then the Corinthians might well have said: It is no longer necessary to show the Lord’s death; for he is now come; he is here; this bread which we break and eat is Christ himself. Fr. Corn. Bah, talk and chatter as much as you will; I flatly say, that the Corinthians ate Christ with skin and hair, as we Catholics also do. bah, see. Jac. Yet Christ says, John 16:28: I leave the world, and go to the Father. Again, verse 5: But now I go my way to him that sent me. Again, verse 7: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. Again, verse 10; Because I go to the Father, and ye see me no more. Again, John 12:8: Me ye have not always. Fr. Corn. Bah, you begin to preach again, do you? And do you think that you can spirit away and wrest from me everything? but wait, wait, I shall come at you in another way. It is John here, John there; but why do you not tell me of what John writes in the sixth chapter, where Christ says: The bread that I will give is my flesh, eh? Jac. Christ says in the same chapter, that he is the bread which came down from heaven. Here he does not speak of a bread that grows out of the earth. Fr. Corn. Bah, is this not a wicked, vile, crafty and cunning heretic; for hear how the devil wags his accursed tongue, my, my, my! Jac. Yet I do not say anything but what Christ himself says and means; for these are his own words, throughout the whole chapter: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.” Again: “I am the bread of life.” Again: “Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.” Again, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.” Again: “When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? what and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the Spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6.” ## Original source [Read this passage on Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/65855/pg65855-images.html#Page_748) [Edition details](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/65855) [Previous page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN JACOB DE KEERSGIETER AND MR. FRIAR CORNELIS, A FRANCISCAN MONK; IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAMME, RECORDER, AND MR. MICHIEL HOUWAERT, CLERK OF THE CRIMINAL COURT, ON THE 9TH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.306](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-jacob-de-keersgieter-and-mr-friar-cornelis-a-franciscan-monk-in-the-presence-of-mr-jan-van-damme-rec/part-8/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: DISPUTATION BETWEEN JACOB DE KEERSGIETER AND MR. FRIAR CORNELIS, A FRANCISCAN MONK; IN THE PRESENCE OF MR. JAN VAN DAMME, RECORDER, AND MR. MICHIEL HOUWAERT, CLERK OF THE CRIMINAL COURT, ON THE 9TH OF MAY, A. D. 1569.306](/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-jacob-de-keersgieter-and-mr-friar-cornelis-a-franciscan-monk-in-the-presence-of-mr-jan-van-damme-rec/part-10/) --- Page: https://history.truechristian.church/en/stories/mm-disputation-between-jacob-de-keersgieter-and-mr-friar-cornelis-a-franciscan-monk-in-the-presence-of-mr-jan-van-damme-rec/part-9/ [Contribute a correction or addition](https://github.com/trueChristian/history.truechristian.church/issues/new?title=Correction%3A+Disputation+Between+Jacob+De+Keersgieter+And+Mr.+Friar+Cornelis%2C+A+Franciscan+Monk%3B+In+The+Presence+Of+Mr.+Jan+Van+Damme%2C+Recorder%2C+And+Mr.+Michiel+Houwaert%2C+Clerk+Of+The+Criminal+Court%2C+On+The+9th+Of+May%2C+A.+D.+1569.306+%C2%B7+Page+9+of+13&body=%23%23+Page+or+topic%0ADisputation+Between+Jacob+De+Keersgieter+And+Mr.+Friar+Cornelis%2C+A+Franciscan+Monk%3B+In+The+Presence+Of+Mr.+Jan+Van+Damme%2C+Recorder%2C+And+Mr.+Michiel+Houwaert%2C+Clerk+Of+The+Criminal+Court%2C+On+The+9th+Of+May%2C+A.+D.+1569.306+%C2%B7+Page+9+of+13%0A%0APage%3A+https%3A%2F%2Fhistory.truechristian.church%2Fen%2Fstories%2Fmm-disputation-between-jacob-de-keersgieter-and-mr-friar-cornelis-a-franciscan-monk-in-the-presence-of-mr-jan-van-damme-rec%2Fpart-9%2F%0A%0ARecord%3A+mm-disputation-between-jacob-de-keersgieter-and-mr-friar-cornelis-a-franciscan-monk-in-the-presence-of-mr-jan-van-damme-rec--b00201-o000000%0A%0ADate+currently+shown%3A+1569%0A%0A%23%23+Correction+or+addition%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Sources+and+evidence%0APlease+include+book%2Fpage+references%2C+archive+links%2C+or+first-hand+documentation.%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Image+credit+%28if+applicable%29%0ACreator%2C+source%2C+and+permission+or+public-domain+basis.%0A%0A%0A%0ASubmitted+for+review%3B+this+issue+does+not+publish+changes+automatically.)