# Remarks In Regard To The Distinction Of The People Called Albigenses Or Waldenses. · Page 2 of 3 [Previous page: REMARKS IN REGARD TO THE DISTINCTION OF THE PEOPLE CALLED ALBIGENSES OR WALDENSES.](/en/stories/mm-remarks-in-regard-to-the-distinction-of-the-people-called-albigenses-or-waldenses/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: REMARKS IN REGARD TO THE DISTINCTION OF THE PEOPLE CALLED ALBIGENSES OR WALDENSES.](/en/stories/mm-remarks-in-regard-to-the-distinction-of-the-people-called-albigenses-or-waldenses/part-3/) Who does not see that this Count was excommunicated simply because he permitted these so-called heretics, termed Albigenses and Waldenses, to live under him? on account of which his whole territory was given for a prey. Fifth Argument.—In the year 1212 the city of Penne, or Pene, in the territory of Aix la Chapelle, was besieged by the count of Montfort; but before the enemy arrived, the Governor burnt the suburb, and retreated with his people into the citadel. Finally the city was taken, and seventy soldiers who were in it (the writer says) were hanged; but all the rest (namely, the defenseless) that maintained the error of the Albigenses, were burnt. Thuan. Hist., lib. 6, A. D. 1550. Forte ex Vincentio Bello Vacensi and Petro Sarn. From this also it certainly is more than evident that the Albigenses lived quietly under their magistrates, and offered no resistance to the enemies; hence they were not hanged, like the conquered soldiers, but burnt as heretics. Sixth Argument.—“Thus the Count of Montfort,” writes Paul Emilius, “scoured the whole country, and brought all the cities and castles, especially in Agenois and Rouergue, under his power. Not because they all held an ungodly doctrine (that is, were Albigenses), but in order that they might not be able to protect or assist the ungodly,” that is, the heretics, as they called them. Hist. Gal., lib. 6, in Phill., Aug. 2. Here it is also evident beyond contradiction, that the Albigenses who lived under those magistrates, did not only carry no arms, but also held a belief entirely different from that of their authorities; for, otherwise they would have called both by the same name, that is, ungodly, but as it is, only the Albigenses are called ungodly, while of the magistrates it is stated, that they did not hold this doctrine; although sometimes the magistrates and the subjects were called by the same name, as has been said. Seventh Argument.—This is still more confirmed by the words with which the Dominican friars in those times were accustomed to conclude their sermons, saying: “Behold, here ye can perceive, most beloved, how great the wickedness of the heretics (the Albigenses) is, yea, what is still more, they have accepted the protection of the secular lords.” Vinbert. Burgund. Serm., part 2, Serm. 64. From this, and similar passages which we might adduce, it is sufficiently evident that not the Albigenses or Waldenses, but the magistrates under whom they lived, had recourse to arms and carried on war; hence, they do wrong, who confound the Albigenses with their magistrates, and lay, whether through ignorance or on purpose, what their magistrates did, to the charge of the Albigenses. Their own confession has already been given; in which they confess: That they follow the example of Christ, who exercised no temporal jurisdiction or dominion. Eighth Argument.—But, for still further proof of said matter, we will add the following, contained in the Introduction to the Martyrs Mirror, edition 1631, p. 50, col. 1: “A. D., . . . there existed in Toulouse in France, the Albigenses, so called because they arose principally in the province of Albi; otherwise they were of the same doctrine and belief as the former (the Waldenses); hence it is presumable, that they were one people notwithstanding that they are called by different names.” “Baronius writes that their belief, among other things, was: That infant baptism was not necessary to salvation; that an unworthy, sinful priest could not administer the sacrament; that no one might become a bishop, who was not blameless; that no churches ought to be erected to the honor of God or the saints; that confession (of sins) could be made to any one; that it was not lawful to swear any oath, etc.; all of which things they said could be found in the New Testament, to which alone they held.” From Baron., A. D. 1176, num. 1, 2, 3. Continuing, we find, in the aforementioned Introduction (same page, col. 2), respecting their views against war, and in refutation of those who impute this to them, the following words: “For this reason we must also consider, that when we read here of the wars waged against them, and the resistance which they offered, this . . . is to be understood of the princes and magistrates who took them under their protection; as the King of Aragon, the count of Toulouse, the count of Foix, and others; further, of those who were employed under the authority of the aforementioned persons; but it is neither probable nor reasonable, that such people should be counted among them, who, according to Baronius, regulated their conduct only by the New Testament, which they observed so strictly, that they would not even swear an oath, which is much less than to engage in war.” ## Original source [Read this passage on Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/65855/pg65855-images.html#Page_294) [Edition details](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/65855) [Previous page: REMARKS IN REGARD TO THE DISTINCTION OF THE PEOPLE CALLED ALBIGENSES OR WALDENSES.](/en/stories/mm-remarks-in-regard-to-the-distinction-of-the-people-called-albigenses-or-waldenses/) · [Book contents](/en/sources/martyrs-mirror/#book-contents) · [Next page: REMARKS IN REGARD TO THE DISTINCTION OF THE PEOPLE CALLED ALBIGENSES OR WALDENSES.](/en/stories/mm-remarks-in-regard-to-the-distinction-of-the-people-called-albigenses-or-waldenses/part-3/) --- Page: https://history.truechristian.church/en/stories/mm-remarks-in-regard-to-the-distinction-of-the-people-called-albigenses-or-waldenses/part-2/ [Contribute a correction or addition](https://github.com/trueChristian/history.truechristian.church/issues/new?title=Correction%3A+Remarks+In+Regard+To+The+Distinction+Of+The+People+Called+Albigenses+Or+Waldenses.+%C2%B7+Page+2+of+3&body=%23%23+Page+or+topic%0ARemarks+In+Regard+To+The+Distinction+Of+The+People+Called+Albigenses+Or+Waldenses.+%C2%B7+Page+2+of+3%0A%0APage%3A+https%3A%2F%2Fhistory.truechristian.church%2Fen%2Fstories%2Fmm-remarks-in-regard-to-the-distinction-of-the-people-called-albigenses-or-waldenses%2Fpart-2%2F%0A%0ARecord%3A+mm-remarks-in-regard-to-the-distinction-of-the-people-called-albigenses-or-waldenses--b00019-o000000%0A%0ADate+currently+shown%3A+13th+century+%28source+section%29%0A%0A%23%23+Correction+or+addition%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Sources+and+evidence%0APlease+include+book%2Fpage+references%2C+archive+links%2C+or+first-hand+documentation.%0A%0A%0A%0A%23%23+Image+credit+%28if+applicable%29%0ACreator%2C+source%2C+and+permission+or+public-domain+basis.%0A%0A%0A%0ASubmitted+for+review%3B+this+issue+does+not+publish+changes+automatically.)