# Confession Of Claes De Praet Who For The Testimony Of Jesus Christ, And His Word Was Imprisoned And Burnt At Ghent, And Laid Down His Life As A Burnt Offering Unto The Lord A. D. 1556.

1556 · Historical source

Source: Martyrs’ Mirror. Original heading: CONFESSION OF CLAES DE PRAET WHO FOR THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST, AND HIS WORD WAS IMPRISONED AND BURNT AT GHENT, AND LAID DOWN HIS LIFE AS A BURNT OFFERING UNTO THE LORD A. D. 1556.

Source heading; not independently verified

Grace and peace from God our Father, and the
Lord Jesus Christ, be with you all, my most beloved
brethren and sisters in the Lord.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings
in heavenly places in Christ; according as he
hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the
world, that we should be holy and without blame
before him in love. Let every one among you walk
worthy of the vocation wherewith he is called so
that satan may not torment you in your trial; and
diligently exhort one another in love; for I would
willingly write you an exhortation, but the time is
not convenient for it, because I am closely watched
by the jailer, who stands in great fear of the dean.
Nevertheless, I am greatly inclined to write you
something about my examination, and the malice
and forged lies of the priests, by which they think
to condemn me, but God be praised, who helps me
gain the victory. I write you this, if haply some that
are yet young may be edified thereby.

At first after I was imprisoned, until the sixth
day I was in great sorrow; my heart was weighed
down and heavy, and my flesh feared greatly. I
said to myself: “Now I must undergo this and
many other conflicts;” I thought of wife and children;
and satan went round me to devour me, with
many strange temptations which it would take too
long to relate. On the sixth day, in the forenoon,
the jailer came and called me out of the place where
I was confined, saying: “Claes, come down, and
follow me;” and he led the way. My heart kindled
within me with joy to the Lord my God; so that all
my trouble and anxiety was driven from me, as dust
is swept from the street. Then thought I: “O gracious
God! now I find that thou art faithful to thy
promise. Heb. 10:23. Lord, direct now my speech,
as thou hast promised.” Heb. 10:23; Luke 21:14.
He then led me into a room, where sat the Chief
Judge with two other Judges, the Bailiff, and a man
with a long beard, who had a large book before him,
in which to write. They regarded me very intently,
when I entered the room, and I did them great reverence,
and bade all of them peace. Rom. 13:7.
The jailer placed a chair for me, and said: “Claes,
sit down here; it is so ordered.” I sat down with
good cheer, the heart lifted up to the Lord my God,
forgetful of myself and the things that are in this
world.

Then they said: “Cover your head.” I said:
“It is not proper now.” The bailiff asked me:
“What is your name!” I replied: “Claes de
Praet.” Then said he: “Write this, and born in
this city.” The clerk then asked me: “Were you
born here?” I replied: “I know nothing to the
contrary.” Bailiff. “Where have you been so
long, Claes? The last time you were away from
home so long?” Claes. “In Emderland.” Bailiff.
“What did you do there?” Claes. “I tried to
learn whether I could not buy or sell, or do something,
by which to earn my bread.” Bailiff. “Yes,
and to see the brethren, I well perceive.” Claes.
“Yes, Sir Bailiff.” Bailiff. “Yes, Claes, have you
received any other baptism than the one you received
in your infancy, when you were Christened?”
Claes. “I don’t remember so far back.” Bailiff.
“Have you received a baptism which you remember?”
Claes. “Yes, Sir bailiff.” Bailiff. “How
long ago?” Claes. “About four years.” Then
they were all greatly astonished. The bailiff asked
me once more: “How long did you say?” Then
the other judge said: “About four years.” Then
the bailiff looked at me very sharply, and asked
who they were, that had intercourse with me, and
which of my brethren were also baptized. I replied:
“It is not our way to ask each other: Where are
you from? or where do you live? or what is your
name? or what do you do?” Bailiff. “You don’t
want to know it?” Claes. “No, Sir Bailiff.” Bailiff.
“You do it, so as not to bring any one into trouble?”
Claes. “Yes, Sir bailiff; for we well know that our
blood is much sought, and the Lord has permitted
us to be as wise as serpents.” Pr. 1:11; Matt. 10:16.
Then the bailiff snarled at me, and they talked
much Latin with each other.

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The bailiff then asked: “Where was it that you
received your baptism?” Claes. “At Antwerp.”
Bailiff.. “Where there?” Claes. “Between St.
George’s gate and the Koeper gate.” Bailiff.. “In
what house?” Claes. “In a small, new house.”
Bailiff.. “What trade was carried on in it?” Claes.
“I saw no trade carried on there.” Bailiff.. “Yea,
Claes, who was present? there must have been witnesses
present to testify that you were a brother?”
Claes. “There were three or four persons present
who lived in the house, and the one who brought
me there.” Bailiff.. “Who was it that brought you
there?” Claes. “It was a young man.” Bailiff..
“Where was he from?” Claes. “I did not ask
him.” Bailiff.. “How many were baptized with
you?” Claes. “Three of us.” Bailiff.. “Where
were they from?” Claes. “I did not ask them.”
Bailiff.. “What trade did they follow?” Claes.
“One was a journeyman mason, it seemed to me.”
Bailiff.. “How did he that brought you there know
where to find you?” Claes. “He set the day when
he would meet me at the Koeper gate.” Bailiff..
“How did you know that the baptizer was in the
city?” Claes. “I had made inquiries at different
times, while out trafficking, and thus heard that he
was there.” Bailiff. “Where did you hear that he was
there?” Then said the chief judge: “They know all
their people.” Bailiff. “Do they still live in the
house where you were baptized, or don’t you know
this either?” Claes. “Shortly after they were all
driven from the house.” Bailiff. “Then you can’t
tell us anything about it, can you?” Claes. “One
went to England; another was burnt, and where the
rest went to I don’t know.” Bailiff. “What kind
of a man was he who baptized you?” Claes. “He
appeared to me to be a blameless man.” Bailiff.
“Yes, Claes, how do you know that the man that
baptized you was blameless?” Then one of the
judges said: “He said it appeared to him that
he was blameless.”

The chief judge then said: “These people also
preach, do they not?” Then the Bailiff. remarked to
him: “We used to ask all these questions, but we
do it no longer.” And they rang the bell for the
jailer to come and take me away. This they put
on record.

The clerk asked me what persons from Ghent I
had left at Emden. I would give him no answer,
because it was not his business to ask. The judges
then said to me: “Claes, we will send you men
that will teach you the true faith.” Claes. “I trust
I have the true faith, and if they will confirm me
therein, they will be welcome; but if they want
to draw me away from it, I don’t want them.”
Then they said, urgently: “Claes, hear them;
hear them always.” I then heartily thanked the
judges and the Bailiff., since they had been molested
with me. The jailer’s servant then told me to go
above, and I went. I felt very gloomy, because they
had not asked me concerning my faith. Two servants
who had stood at the door and listened, came
up above to me, and tormented me with many
things and said: “Poor fellow, that you are, to give
your life for it, and leave your wife and children in
want; it is not right for you to break your marriage,
since God himself has instituted it” I said: “I do
not break my marriage, nor does my wife; but they
are to blame for it, who take me from my wife; they
may well take heed what they do.” They said I
should speak that which they wanted to hear. I replied:
“God did not teach me this;” and admonished
them, to beware of staining their hands with such
blood. I spoke to them earnestly, and they went
away, and asked God to grant me my greatest happiness.
Then I sat there alone, and Satan came to
tempt me, saying within: “Poor man, are you here
for the sake of your faith? The lords don’t ask you
concerning your faith, but regarding the baptism
you received from such and such a man, as you
well know.” And he tormented me with all that he
could produce, doing his very best to cast me
down. Then thought I: “O thou wicked tempter,
thou murderer, I well feel that thou art the same
that tormented Peter, and of whom he warned us.”
1 Peter 5:8. And I fled to God, and commenced a
hymn, singing joyfully, and became glad and happy
that I had fought through this storm. James 5:13.
I was there about ten weeks.

Then the jailer came, and said: “Claes, come
hither; here are two royston crows;” and enjoined
me much to think of my wife and children. I said:
“I think of them enough; but Christ has said:
‘Whosoever will not forsake father and mother,
sister and brother, wife, child, yea, his own life, for
my name’s sake, is not worthy of me.’ ” Matthew
10:37; Luke 14:26. He said: “It is true, if one
can do it.” He then led me into a room where were
two Jacobines. They took off their caps, and I did
the same with mine. They bade me good evening,
and I them. The one asked me: “What is your
name, my friend?” I answered: “Claes,” and
said: “What is your name?” He replied: “Brother
Peter de Backer,” and told me, that he had
been at the chief judge’s, and that the latter had requested
that he should come and instruct me in the
true faith. I said: “This I have received from
God.” Ques. “What is your faith?” Claes. “I
believe only in Christ Jesus, that he is the living
and true Son of God, and that there is no other
salvation either in heaven or on earth.” Ques. “Is
there nothing else to be believed? What becomes
of the mother, the holy church, in whom we must
believe?” Claes. “Do you know which is the holy
church?” Ques. “Do you know it, let me hear it?”
Claes. “I ask you; for you speak of it?.” Ans.
“The same which was it from the time of Christ,
and of the apostles, and which the apostles maintained
and still maintain.” Claes. “What one is
that?” Ans. “The mother, the holy Roman
church.” Claes. “Is this the apostolic church?”
Ans. “Yes.” Claes. “Did the apostles thus maintain
it?” Ans. “Yes, just as we, neither less nor
more.” Claes. “Did the apostles read mass?”
Ans. “Yes.” Claes. “Where is this written?”
Ans. “I will show you;” and he referred me to the
Corinthians, where Paul speaks of the supper.
1 Cor. 11:20. I said: “He speaks here of the
breaking of bread; but did he read mass as you
do?” Ans. “Yes, neither less nor more than we
do.” Claes. “Did the apostles persecute and
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maintain their church with fire and sword, as you
do?” Ans. “Yes, they shed blood, betrayed and
killed.” Claes. “Peter shed the blood of Malchus,
and Judas betrayed; but where did they kill any
one?” Ans. “Peter smote Ananias and Sapphira
with the sword of his mouth, so that they fell down
dead.” And he laughed and held up his finger.
Then said I: “It seems to me you belong to those
of whom Paul speaks (2 Tim. 3:5), whom we are to
flee; for your folly does not remain hid, but becomes
manifest before men; for you sit and mock and
loiter, and show plainly, that you are men of corrupt
minds, ever learning, and never able to come to the
knowledge of the truth.” And I reproved him
much. They wanted to prolong the conversation
much longer, and question me with regard to baptism,
the incarnation of Christ, and other articles of
faith; but I had resolved not to dispute with them,
without judges being present; but to confess as I
confessed above before them. When they perceived
that I would hear them no longer, and was on the
point of leaving, one of them said: “O Claes, how
lamentably you have gone astray; and yet I love
you so much; I would that you were of our mind
with me, and that I might give my body to be
burned. O poor man, I will pray for you, and have
others pray for you, when I preach.” Claes. “I
don’t want you to pray for me, nor that you have
others pray for me; for your prayer is vain, and is
not heard by God, so long as you people continue
in your wickedness.” Ans. “Perhaps there are one
or two in the whole number, that are good.” Claes.
“Begone; for you only want to talk.” Then he went
away laughing, saying: “I shall have you prayed
for, whether you desire it or not, for I like you well;
and I will come again.”

About two weeks afterwards, there came two of
the same band; the one was a large fat man, who
had much talk in him; the other was very fierce
and captious in his remarks, and wanted much to
engage me in a disputation; but I would not enter
into any, only that I put many questions to them,
as I had done to the others, and made them expose
their wickedness themselves; for very many
prisoners had come and stationed themselves back
under the window of the room, and behind the door,
to listen; which I well knew; hence I asked the
more, because the one was so loquacious, which was
owing to him having imbibed too much.

Having been confined about seven weeks, I was
called down and led into a room, where sat the
Dean of Ronse, with his clerk, and another person.
The Dean told me to be seated, and I took a seat
forward at the table, beside him, whereupon he gave
me a long lecture, to which I listened. He said that
it was impossible to please God without faith, and
that he that did not believe was damned. Finally he
asked me: “Why did you allow yourself to be thus
seduced, and led into error, and apostatize from the
holy church?” I replied: “Since it is written that
it is impossible to please God without faith, I was
diligent in examining the faith, and asking God to
strengthen me in it, through his grace and mercy.
This he has done abundantly, and I want to keep it
faithfully unto his praise, and not to forsake it on
account of any suffering, nor for aught that is in
the world.”

Dean. “You think you have the faith, but you
have departed from it. And that you people are so
bold and of good cheer even unto death, is all owing
to the devil, who can transform himself into an angel
of light. Hence, when you read the Scriptures, you
were instructed by some poor, simple tradesman,
who taught you the same according to his reason;
therefore you are now deceived. You should have
let those teach you, who have received the true doctrine,
the ministers of the holy church, that is, the
pastors.” Claes. “Are they the ones that have received
the true doctrine?” Dean. “Yes.” Claes.
“Why, then, do they live the life of devils, as may
be seen?” Dean. “What does that concern you?
It is written, Matt. 23: ‘Do after their commandments,
but not after their works.’ ” Claes. “Are
you, then, the scribes and Pharisees, of whom Matthew
has written?” Dean. “Yes.” Claes. “Then
all the woes come upon you, that follow further on,
in said chapter.” Dean. “No, they do not.”

We had much additional discussion yet, with reference
to this. He would have liked to engage me
in a disputation concerning the articles of faith; but
I would not enter into one, confining myself to the
asking of such questions. The man was willing in
speaking, and very mild, and wanted attention to
be given to what he said, and also gave good attention
himself. And I thought: “I have heard so
long and so much of this man, that he persecutes
and troubles the church so greatly; I must see now,
how he will prove it with the Scriptures, when I
speak with him; for I don’t know that I have ever
seen him.”

I asked him, where he found it written, that he
should run so bloodthirstily after innocent blood,
which no one could accuse of any crime. Dean.
“My friend, I don’t run after or seek the blood
of any one.” Claes. “You send out your servants
for that purpose.” Dean. “I do not, my friend.”
Claes. “Do you persecute no one, then?” Dean.
“No, my friend.” Claes. “Have you no mandates
either, by which you cause it to be done?” Dean.
“No, my friend.” Claes. “You have certainly delivered
to the law my fellow-brethren who fell into
your hands, and remained steadfast in the faith;
this has been manifest to all the world.” Dean. “I
don’t do this, my friend.” Claes. “Why do you
come and sit with the Judges, and have so much to
say, if you don’t concern yourself about the matter?
One by hearing you talk, would think you had
no hand in it.” Dean. “No, my friend;” and he
rubbed his hands together. Claes. “Who then
does it?” Dean. “The secular, or the lord who
has received the sword.”

We had yet much more discussion on this subject,
so that he did not know which way to turn.
He asked from Deut. 17:12, upon which passage
he founded it, that the priests had the authority, etc.
I told him that that was under the law of revenge,
but that now we were under the law of grace. Exodus
21:23; Rom. 6:14. And I asked him, how he
dared do something which the Lord had forbidden,
namely, concerning the tares, Matt. 13:30, that
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both the wheat and the tares should be suffered to
grow together. I asked him which of the two I was,
that I must certainly be either the wheat or the
tares? Dean. “You are the tares.” Claes. “Why
don’t you let me grow until the day of harvest?”
Dean. “What the lord of the field commanded his
servants was for the reason, that they should not spoil
the wheat by pulling up the tares. But I can go
along the edges, and here and there pluck out a
handful or two, yea, sometimes, six, eight, ten, twelve,
yea, now and then a hundred or two, without spoiling
the wheat.” Claes. “Then you are wiser than the
servants of the Lord.” Dean. “I can certainly well
do this.” Claes. “When I held with the priests,
and walked according to your will, was I a good
blade?” Dean. “Yes.” Claes. “Am I now a bad
blade?” Dean. “Yes.” Claes. “Well, then, if I
am a bad blade, according to your own words, you
have yourselves spoiled me, and others, who have
gone before, by your plucking, and yet you say that
you can do it so well. O you miserable plucker,
that you are, when you plucked the four blades
of Lier, in the Verle place, five years ago, when you
stood on the scaffold, and preached, and the people
said: “Antichrist preaches.” It was then that I began
to investigate, what faith it was for which those
people died so boldly there; and I examined the
scripture which you quoted from 2 Tim. 2 and 3. And
I found that I had to separate from such a people
as is plainly enough spoken of there, with regard to
you; and I separated from such a multitude, and
do so yet. What becomes now of you and your
plucking, poor plucker; the more you pluck, the
more you spoil; according to your own words, it
were better if you would stop.” And I told him
a great deal from the Scriptures, so that he was
ashamed, and knew not what to answer.

At last he said: “Those were not my people; it
seems to me, that you have searched the Scriptures
well; where did you hold your church?” Claes.
“Where Christ and his apostles held it, behind
hedges, in the woods, in the field, on mountains, on
the sea-coast, sometimes in houses, or wherever
they found a place.” Luke 6:17; Matt. 5:2; Acts
1:13. Dean. “Christ preached openly (Jn. 18:20);
but you people cannot be found, where you are, or
who you are.” Claes. “It is certainly a great cross
for you, that you cannot find them, nor know them,
and that you people are known so well. I hope that
God will not permit you to find them; but though
you sometimes cut into the branches, I trust that
you will not cut off the vine. Christ Jesus, the living
Son of God, will keep and feed his branches, so that
they may bring forth fruit, although you now do
your very best to tear and destroy them.”

We spoke much more yet of the church, and of
his people, whom he exalted greatly. I asked him
many questions in regard to whether infants that
died without baptism were damned. He said: “Yes.”
I asked him whether the apostles had read mass and
persecuted. And he replied “Yes” to everything,
so that it seemed to me that the more I asked him,
the more he lied; and I reproved him for the lies in
which I found him. He said: “They are not lies,
but it is the truth; but you don’t believe what is
told you; you remain hardened and unbelieving.”
And according to his words, it seemed that the life
of the apostles was not a whit different from that of
the priests. He said: “As regards your life, your
walk or conversation is good towards all men, and
you do unto your neighbor as you would have men
do unto you, and live in peace, love and unity with
one another, which is very good; and you assist
each other in need and distress, and lay down your
lives for one another, which is also very good, I can
say nothing against it; and you expel from your
church them that live disorderly, as you expelled
Jelis of Aix-la-Chapelle, who led such a life, as I
well know; against this I have nothing to say, it is
all well done: but of what use is it to your people
to have the life, if you have not the faith? it is not
able to save you.” I replied: “We have also the
faith; but you don’t understand it, or will not understand
it; but it will yet be revealed to you, in
the last day of the Lord, whom you have served.”
And I assailed him very severely.

He rang the bell for the jailer to let him out. The
latter came into the room, and the Dean rose to go.
I thanked him much that he had come here for my
sake. He turned around and said: “I should like
to see you suffer yourself to be brought on the right
way; but you persist obstinately in your unbelief;
you are like your master.” I asked: “Who is my
master?” He replied: “The devil.” I assailed him
with many Scriptures, in order that he should come
no more, and he went away ashamed, because the
jailer was present, and other prisoners, who came
running to the door. I had asked him for information
concerning Jelis, and he could tell me everything,
which greatly astonished me.

The third day after this, the jailer came once
more for me, and I went down very willingly. He
directed me to go into a certain room. When I entered
it, there were sitting there the chief Judge
with another Judge, and a pastor or priest, who
was exceedingly bent upon examining our friends,
and very mordacious in his words, so that he could
listen to nothing that was said, without interrupting
it. But one of the Judges had never been a Judge
before, and he constantly forbade him; for he paid
very close attention. When I entered the room, I
did the lords great reverence, and they did the
same to me. 1 Pet. 2:17. I took a seat at the table,
and the priest made a lengthy harangue, as had the
dean; I kept silent till I was asked. When he had
ended his sermon, he asked me: “Why did you
suffer yourself to be seduced so miserably from the
faith into error?” Claes. “I have not been led into
error, but from error into the true Christian faith.”
Priest. “What then is your faith; let us hear?”
Claes. “I believe that Jesus Christ is the true, living
Son of God, and that there is no other salvation
either in heaven or on earth, either under it or
above it.” Chief Judge. “This we all likewise believe
in our church.” The priest laughed, saying:
“This I also preach; tell us something else, and
speak freely; for Christ said: When you are brought
before kings, and princes, and magistrates, fear not
what ye shall speak; for it shall be given you in that
same hour, of my heavenly Father, what ye shall
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speak; yea, my spirit shall speak through your
mouth. Matt. 10:19. Now, if you have received
the Holy Spirit, speak freely through the Holy
Spirit.” And the chief Judge sat there and kept
nodding his head, and smiling, and saying: “Yes,
yes, Claes, yes;” before I could say a single word.
The priest continued instantly. “Christ promised
his church, that he would be with them unto the end
of the world. Matt. 28:20. And I can find none
among you that can tell me of a longer existence of
your church than about thirty years; for before that
it did not exist; or do you know of any books of
your people, that are older, then name them to us.”
Claes. “Since Christ promised his church, that he
should be with her unto the end of the world, I
doubt not that he has been the preserver of his
body, and is yet, and will be as long as the world
will endure, according to his promise, Matt. 28:20;
Eph. 5:23. Although she was sometimes extirpated
in some countries, through bloodshed and
persecution, and through the false doctrine of the
Roman Empire, or otherwise; she was therefore
not annihilated throughout the world; for the world
is great, and she could linger in some corner of the
world, and from one to the other, without perishing
utterly. And as to your asking me to name to you
any books of our church, the Bible is our book,
which has reigned in the church from of old.”
Priest. “Is it big enough for you people, and have
you enough with one?” Claes. “Yes; it is too big
yet for us.” The priest laughed and said: “What
becomes then of all the books written from the time
of the apostles by learned men, who also received
the Spirit of God, as well as the apostles? have
they all written in vain; as Jerome, Gregory, Augustine,
and Ambrose; these were certainly good and
virtuous men, were they not?” Claes. “Were
these the four pillars upon which your church is
founded?” Priest. “Yes.” Claes. “I did not know
them, only by hearsay; they were pious scullions,
if they founded your church as it yet is as may be
seen.” The priest drew back, and said: “Why,
why!” I said: “Christ did not thus found his
church, neither did Peter, Paul, Stephen, and John;
they rather received rods on the back, stones on
the head, and the sword in the neck, and so forth.”
2 Cor. 11:25; Acts 7:58; 12:2.

The priest was disconcerted, and said: “Tell us
the truth about your church; for no one knows
where to find it; if it were good, it would certainly
come to the light; you people have neither head
nor authority, nor do you know one another; this
is a strange thing.” Claes. “Paul teaches us in his
epistle to the Ephesians, concerning the true church,
which Christ has presented to himself, that it is
glorious, holy and without blemish, without spot or
wrinkle; that they are baptized together into one
Spirit, and into one body, the head of which is
Christ, and are joined together as members of his
body. These have one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
one God and Father, of us all, who is through
us all, and in us all. This is the true temple of God,
in which dwells the Spirit of God. This church
Christ has bought and redeemed with his blood.”
Eph. 5:27; 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 4:5,6; 1 Corinthians
6:19,20; 1 Pet. 1:19. Priest. “Did not
Christ redeem all men, but only these?” Claes. “It
is written in divers places, that the unbelieving shall
be damned; how then will the death of Christ benefit
them? or what will it avail them that Christ died?
It is to be feared that they will regret it, that Christ
died. But those who have believed in the word of
the Lord, and followed it, they are the ones who
will inherit the kingdom of heaven, and triumph
with the Lord on mount Zion, who have death,
devil, hell and the world under their feet, though
the world in her frenzy hastens to tear, devour and
destroy them. If they were of the world, the world
would love them; but because they are not of the
world, therefore the world hates them, as Christ
said.” John 15:19. Priest. “You people don’t
believe that Christ is God and man.” Claes. “I believe
that Christ is true God and man.” Priest.
“Do you not believe that Christ is man from
Mary’s flesh?” Claes. “No; for if he had become
man from Mary’s natural flesh and blood, he must
have had his beginning with Mary; but it is written
that he has neither beginning of days, nor end of
life. Heb. 7:3. And the Word would not have become
flesh, if he had assumed flesh from Mary; nor
would he have come in the flesh, as John declares;
but he would have come from the flesh, had he assumed
it from Mary. John 1:14; 2 John 7. And it
is written: He that confesseth not that Christ is
come in the flesh, is that spirit of antichrist. 1 John
4:3. And if he were such a carnal man, he could
not have ascended to heaven; for it is written
(1 Cor. 15:50) that flesh and blood will not inherit
the kingdom of God.” Priest. “Still, did not the
angel Gabriel say to Mary: Thou shalt conceive and
bring forth a son?” Luke 1:31; Is. 7:14. Claes.
“Well, understand the word rightly; for he said:
Thou shalt conceive, and bring forth; now, what
Mary conceived, could not grow from her.” Priest.
“What word became flesh?” Claes. “The same
word of which John testifies to us, in his first epistle,
saying: That which was from the beginning, which
we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,
which we have looked upon, and our hands have
handled, of the Word of life; for the life was manifested.
1 John 1:1; John 9:37; 20:27. What else
do you want to know?” Priest. “Where did
Christ assume his flesh, in heaven, or on earth?”
Claes. “That which I cannot prove with Scriptures,
I will not say.” Priest. “Don’t you believe
anything but what is written?” Claes. “No.”
Priest. “You certainly believe that you have a
soul; but what do you know as to what your soul
is, how large, how long, how wide, or of what color
it is?” Claes. “What does that concern me? my
salvation does not lie in that.” Priest. “You believe
that the dead will rise; but how can any one
comprehend that what has perished will rise and become
alive?” Claes. “I am well satisfied with the
explanation Paul has written,” 1 Cor. 15. Priest.
“Do you not believe that Mary is mother and virgin?”
Claes. “Yes.” The priest smote his hand
upon the table, drew himself up to his full height,
and said: “This you cannot prove to me; we find
nothing of this kind written in the Scriptures.”
538
Claes. “The prophet Isaiah prophesied that he
should be born of a virgin. Is. 7:14. Again, when
Gabriel said to Mary: Thou shalt conceive and
bring forth a son; Mary answered: “How shall this
be, seeing I know not a man?” Luke 1:31,34.
Priest. “Yes, thus you may glean it here and
there; but that she remained virgin until her death?”
Claes. “This I do not say.” Priest. “That is what
I mean. And what do you think of the Supper?
do you not believe that when Christ took bread,
and gave thanks, and brake it, saying: ‘Take, eat;
this is my body;’ he gave them his natural flesh and
blood?” Claes. “No,” Priest. “Did he not say:
Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and
drink his blood, ye have no life in you? And did
he not say that this was the true heavenly bread,
which came down from heaven?” John 6:53,51.
Claes. “The bread of which Christ speaks (John 6),
is this the bread which you give the people to eat,
namely, which you people call the sacrament?”
Priest. “Yea, it is the same which he left us.”
Claes. “According to this, then, no one will be
damned of all those that eat of it; for Christ said:
If any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever;
but now every one comes, whores, knaves, thieves,
murderers, of whom it is written that they shall not
inherit the kingdom of heaven.” Gal. 5:21. Priest.
“They have sorrow for their sins, before they receive
it; and the Lord said: If the sinner sighs over
his transgression, I will remember it no more forever.”
Ezek. 18:21.

In regard to this we had much discussion; but it
is too long to write. At last I asked the priest,
whether he believed that when he takes the host
into his mouth, he receives Christ’s body, in flesh
and blood, as large as he hung on the tree of the
cross? Priest. “Yes.” Claes. “When you swallow
him, where does he go then?” The priest was
highly offended. The chief Judge asked me: “Why
could you not be satisfied with your first baptism,
but had yourself baptized a second time?” Claes.
“I know of but one baptism.” Eph. 4:5. Priest.
“Your sponsors well know that you were baptized
once; you can ask them.” Claes. “Though I had
known that I was baptized, yet I now know that
it was done without faith; but it is written (Romans
14:23): Whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” Chief
Judge. “Your sponsors believed.” Claes. “I do
not know that the apostles baptized any one, unless
he himself believed, and confessed his faith. But
what did I confess when I was baptized in infancy?”
Priest. “Ask your sponsors. And what do you
think of our father the Pope, and his dominion?”
Claes. “The Pope, with all his trumpery, and mass,
and all that is therein, is good for nothing, bag and
baggage. You priests sell masses to the people, by
the dozen, by twenties and thirties at a time; they
have neither edge nor point; they neither cut nor
stab; and yet you promise the people that they are
good and effectual—is this not deception? You
preach to the people, that one should not drink to
excess, and you go about the streets, as drunk as
hogs. You preach that one ought not to be covetous;
but where is more covetousness than in the
priests and monks? You preach that one ought not
to be idle; but where is more idleness than among
you? You will rather tramp from door to door with
a bag or basket, than work, as may be seen.” The
priest was angry, rose, and said: “This is the first
thing you teach each other, to reveal the failings
of your neighbor.” Claes. “Why should we not
apply the knowledge Christ has given us, when he
says that the tree shall be known by its fruit.”
Priest. “This is to be spiritually understood;” and
he went out of the room.

The chief Judge asked me whether I would renounce
my second baptism, and all that I had said.
I replied: “No, my lords, I will in no wise deny
that which was administered to me in the name of
the Lord.” Hearing this, the chief Judge arose.
Then they rose and began to go out. I then
thanked them, that they had been molested with
me. The chief Judge turned around, and asked me
again, whether I would renounce; or I should see
what should result to me from it. Then my heart
was enkindled to tell him and the other Judges,
that they should take heed what they were doing,
and I said: “My lords, renounce I will in no wise,
and what will result to me from it, according to the
imperial mandate, I well know; but there are two
mandates, the one from the supreme King, the
other from the mortal Emperor, and these two run
counter to each other; the one says that both are
to be let grow, the good with the bad; the other
that the tares are to be rooted up. Therefore, my
lords, I pray you, to warn the other Judges, that
they consider what is the best; for you have not
received the sword, to punish the innocent.” I told
them a great deal, as the Lord gave me utterance.
He stood there, with his cap in his hand, as did
also the other Judge, and the jailer, and they kept
very silent. Finally they prayed God, that he would
grant me my greatest happiness, and went away.

Thus I greet the whole church, scattered in every
country, with the peace of the Lord; for I now expect
from day to day, to offer up my sacrifice. Pray
God to keep me steadfast unto the end. I pray
daily for you.

Written in bonds.





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