# Some Examinations Of Jan Hendrickss.

16th century (source section) · Historical source

Source: Martyrs’ Mirror. Original heading: SOME EXAMINATIONS OF JAN HENDRICKSS.

Century of containing source section; exact event date not assigned

Since some brethren have requested me to write
them something concerning what the lords have
asked me touching my faith, when I was before them,
I can therefore not refuse to write them a little in regard
to the answer which I gave them according to
the simple fisherman’s understanding which the
Lord has given me; the Bailiff also did not ask me
very much or very thoroughly, as you will yet hear.
Further, when I had been in confinement forty
weeks, on the fifth of June, A. D. 1570, if I remember
rightly, I was taken down the first time to
appear before the lords, and when I entered the
sheriff’s hall, the judges with the Bailiff and also the
burgomasters were assembled there. I uncovered
my head and bade them good day, and they did the
same to me. The Bailiff then told me to sit down
upon a bench, which I did, whereupon he asked me
how old I was. I said that I did not know it accurately;
“but,” said I “you may write twenty-eight
years;” and so it was written. “Where were you
born?” “At Swartawael.” “How long have you
resided in the Haven?” I said: “Five years,
counting the time I have been confined here.”
“Yes, that is all the same,” said the Bailiff.

He then asked me why I had not my children
baptized. I said: “Because I have never read that
the apostles baptized infants, nor is it found in the
Scriptures.” And so it was written: “Jan Hendrickss
has confessed to us that he has not had his
children baptized, and this because he has never
read in the Scriptures that children were baptized.”
The Bailiff then asked me how many children I had,
whether I did not have more than the two whom he
had caused to be baptized. I said: “None.” “How
old are the children?” Ans. “The older is three
years, and the other about one year.”

Then the Bailiff asked me whether I had been
aware that children were baptized. I said: “Yes, I
have seen it myself.” Ques. “Why then did you not
have your children baptized? Or are you better or
wiser than your forefathers?” Ans. “That I have
not had my children baptized, is because I have
never read that infants are baptized.” Then they
said that whole households were baptized. Ans.
“Whole households are indeed spoken of, but it is
written that they all rejoiced that they had come to
believe in the Lord, which infants can not do.”
This some of the lords admitted. The clerk then
asked me where it was forbidden to baptize infants.
I asked him where it was forbidden to throw dice.
He said that it was forbidden enough, but he could
not prove it to me. Then I said: “It is nowhere
forbidden; yet every one knows that it is an evil
practice,” and they also admitted that it was not
good. I further said that the Scriptures do not forbid
everything that is evil, and that no one should
institute the practice of baptizing infants, unless he
is able to prove it from the Scriptures. The Bailiff
then asked me whether I had had myself baptized.
Ans. “I had myself baptized once, and I know of
but one baptism. Then the Bailiff asked me whether
I had received more than the baptism administered
to me in my infancy. Ans. “I had myself baptized
once according to the Scriptures, the last day of
March, ’63.” Then the Bailiff said: “It was in ’64;
you confessed so to me yourself, when I apprehended
you.” “It was in ’63, said I; but I shall
not deny it, whether it is a year more or less.”
Then the Bailiff said: “We may have misunderstood
each other;” and he had it written thus: “Jan
Hendrickss had himself baptized the last day of
March, ’63, and this according to the Scriptures.”
“Then you were not very old yet,” said the Bailiff.
“This is true, I said.”

He then asked whether I did not know that I was
baptized in my infancy, “I have heard it said,”
said I, “but I do not remember it.” “This indeed
I believe” said the Bailiff. “What man was it that
baptized you, and where was he from, and what
was his name?” Ans. “I did not ask him what his
name was, I had never seen him, nor have I ever
seen him since that time, as far as I know.” This
was written exactly as I confessed it to them. Ques.
“Where does he reside?” Ans. “I do not know.”
Ques. “Do you not know where he was from?”
Ans. “I do not want to tell you this; I do not wish
to name any one.” Ques. “Why?” Ans. “Because
I do not wish to bring any one into trouble;
there are enough in trouble now, and you have
trouble enough with us.” Ques. “Was no one
present when you were baptized?” Ans. “Yes.”
Ques. “Who were they and what were their
names?” Ans. “I do not wish to tell.” Ques.
“Where did it occur and in what place?” Ans.
“In Holland.” Then the Bailiff said; “Holland is
large; in what place?” Then I said: “Why would
you ask me much for the place; if I were to tell
you the place, you would demand to know still
more; but I do not wish to implicate any one.”

Finally I told them the place, and said that it had
taken place in Delfshaven. Ques. “In what house.”
Ans. “I do not wish to tell.” Ques. “What was
the name of the people that were in that house?”
Ans. “I do not wish to name any one.” Ques.
“Why are the people in that house so sacred that
they may not be named?” Ans. “If you knew
them, you would not leave them in peace; and I do
not wish to implicate any one; you have trouble
enough with us.” Then the Bailiff began to ask
how long I had had my wife, and where I had
married her. Ans. “About five years,” and I told
them that I had married her before the Christian
church. Ques. “Before what church? you certainly
did not marry her before the church that
stands in Delfshaven?” Ans. “No.” And so it
was written that I had married her before the Christian
church. Ques. “Who was present?” Ans. “I
do not wish to tell you.”

Then the Bailiff said that I should name the persons,
or he would torture me. Ans. “Sir Bailiff,
who taught you this?” Then the Bailiff said that
he had power to do thus with me, and threatened me
greatly, and when he heard that I would name no
one, he told the clerk to write: “Jan Hendrickss
has confessed to us such and such things (such as I
told them), but he has named no one, and this because
he did not wish to implicate any one;” and
so it was written. When the Bailiff had thus interrogated
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me, and wished me many miles away,
I said to them, “I would fain be in Hitland.”
Then the Bailiff said: “Where is that, where the
busses catch the herring?” “Yes,” “I indeed
would that you were there, said the Bailiff, with all
those that are of your persuasion.” Then one of
the lords who, I was told was a burgomaster, wanted
to speak to me concerning baptism, and asked me;
If a man should lead a Christian life, but did not
have himself baptized, whether he could not be
saved; whether it would be an obstacle in the way
of his salvation? I replied: “No; else salvation
would be by the water; but baptism is a command
of Christ, hence it must be practiced.” Then I
think he said, that it was our view that infants ought
not to be baptized, and asked me when they were
to be baptized, and how old they had to be.
Thereupon I replied to him that the Scriptures
specify no year, whether they were twenty, or thirty,
or fifty, or a hundred; whenever they repented, and
requested it, it might be done; and so we use it, but
not sooner, said I, and so did Christ teach, and the
apostles practice it. Then they said that at that
time it had to be so, that adults were baptized, but
now the infants must be baptized, for then was the
beginning or commencement; this was their pretense.
I then asked the burgomaster whether Christ,
Matt. 28 and Mark 16, had not commanded to go
and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name
of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy
Ghost; and whether the apostles had not observed
the same, and had first taught the people and then
baptized them? This he admitted; for we find, he
said, that about five thousand were baptized at one
time. Thereupon I think I asked him whether he
confessed that adult persons were baptized at that
time. “Yes,” he said. “Well then, we certainly
find clearly enough, that the apostles lived more
than ten or twenty years in the world, and they
first baptized adult persons, as you confess yourself;
and this had therefore to be done so at that time,
because it was in the beginning: now, since we
find that they lived in the world so long, infants
enough must have come into the world in this long
period of years;” this he also acknowledged. Then
I said: “Now show me once where the apostles
in this long time baptized infants; and transferred
baptism upon infants; for you say that then adult
persons had to be baptized, but now infants.
If the apostles had wanted to change baptism, or
wanted that it should be changed, they had time
enough themselves, for they were long enough in
the world, for Paul says: ‘I have not shunned to
declare unto you all the counsel of God’ ” (Acts
20:27); but they could not prove it to me. Then
the oldest judge said that they would prove it to
me, but it was not done; and the same judge said
that God created man once, and no more; and he
commanded circumcision to Abraham once and no
more; and he commanded baptism once, and no
more. Ans. “This is true. Now, if God created
the man Adam once, and no more, and commanded
them circumcision once, and no more, and commanded
them baptism once, and no more, and they
observed the same, and did not change it, why then
have they changed baptism from adult persons to
infants?” Then they said: “Who has changed it?”
Ans. “The Pedobaptists.” Then they told and
begged me to consider the matter well, that it was
not a convenient thing to be burnt. I replied: “I
know that well; I have no desire to be burnt—it is
not convenient to be burnt; if I did not know that
I am right, I would rather ignominiously yield; than
honorably lose my life; for it is no small matter to
suffer one’s self to be burnt at the stake; I am not so
desirous of death, I would rather keep my life, if it
were God’s will.” “Yes,” said they, “consider it
well.” Then the Bailiff said: “Jan Hendrickss,
you have confessed this to us (and he had my confession
read before my eyes, all that I had confessed);
now if you will yield, my lords will do
their utmost to procure your release.” Ans. “My
lords, I am quite open to conviction; if you can
prove to me that I am wrong, and when I can feel
that, I will desist from that which is evil.” That was
well, they said, and they told me to ask the Lord
for grace, that he would grant me a good understanding.
“That I will gladly do,” said I. This
lasted about an hour and a half, whereupon they had
me conducted up above again. These are the principal
questions which they asked me, and which I
have remembered, and these are my simple fisherman’s
answers which I made, as far as I can remember,
for it was written six weeks after I was before
the lords; for there was a man confined with
us, and for this reason we dared not write, but to
write the words exactly as they were spoken, would
be impossible for me, for my memory is weak.

A few days after I was taken below again before
my lord the Bailiff and a young priest, the chaplain
of the Old Church, and thus three of us were in the
sheriff’s hall. The priest then began to relate how
he had had a conversation with a man, and that
they had had many words together concerning the
holy-Scriptures, and about this burning and killing,
for there had recently four priests been put to death
in the Hague, and the priests had said to one another
that there were many different views in the
world concerning the holy Scriptures, and each died
for his belief, and yet there was but one true. This
the priest told me, and said to me that they had
many words; and the man had requested the priest
that he should talk with me; so the priest said.
I then asked: “What kind of a man was it?” “He
was of your persuasion,” he said, “a sailor, and
a man like you are.” Then it occurred to me who
it was, but he is not of our persuasion, for I had
already heard of him; and thus we fell into an animated
conversation, and the priest asked me, whom
I acknowledge as true, for there are so many persuasions.
I said: “What have I to do with another,
I have enough to do with myself.” He asked
whether there was more than one faith that was
true. “No,” said I. And there fell very many
words, and the Bailiff listened, and greatly strengthened
the priest in what he said; and whenever I
quoted Scripture against them, the priest was immediately
on hand to obscure what I said, so that
I could not finish my remarks, and he frequently
said to me: “You are forever coming with the holy
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Scriptures.” “Yes,” said I, “with what should I
come? I have nothing else.” “Yes,” said he, “I
well know that you always come with the Scriptures,
and much with the passage, 2 Thess. 2:15,
where Paul says: “Mark therefore, dear brethren,
and hold the traditions which ye have been taught,
whether by word or epistle.” Mark well the term
word; by that he frequently wanted to prove that
there was more Scripture than was written, which
we were also bound to observe, as far as I could
comprehend his assertion, for he frequently made
it before I could really understand it. But it is only
a stumbling-block—how can we observe more than
what is written? Their sole aim is to obscure the
understanding of the Scriptures, since they are well
aware that with the Scriptures they will fall short;
and they also cannot well bear it that we quote the
Scriptures of the New Testament, for whenever we
do this, their first question is why we quote more
from the Testament, than from other writers, and
whereby we know that the Testament is true; and
they then come with many sophistical questions,
which are not edifying, and skip from one thing to
another. But when they can find any Scriptures in
the Testament that are on their side, these must
stand, yea, then the word of God must stand forever.
For we came to speak of the breaking of
bread, where Paul says: “Take, eat; this is my
body.” 1 Cor. 11:24. This language had to stand
just as it was. I asked him more than once, whether
the bread which they gave men was the body of
Christ. He said: “Yes; when we have pronounced
the words over it, it is his flesh and blood, yea,
soul and body:” it is the truth what I write. Thereupon
I said: “I have eaten the bread with you
people, but I could not feel in my mouth, that it
became flesh, but it remained bread even as it was.”
And we had many words with regard to it. I said
that Christ himself says: “Flesh and blood profit
nothing; but the words that I speak are spirit and
life.” John 6:63. He then came with a sophism,
asking whether the flesh of Christ was not good
for anything.

Thus we had many words. I said that it was
written that the Most High dwelleth not in temples
made with hands, neither is worshiped with men’s
hands. Acts 17:24,25. “Yes,” said the priest,
“as though he needed any one; for he does not
need us, but we need him.” Then he asked me
what I held concerning the matter, or the like.
I replied that Paul says, 1 Cor. 10:15–18: “I speak
as to wise men; judge ye what I say. The cup
of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion
of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break,
is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For
we being many are one bread, and one body: for
we are all partakers of that one bread. Behold
Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the
sacrifices partakers of the altar?” Thus I confess
that there is but one communion of Christ, for Paul
explains it with a simile, saying: “Behold Israel
after the flesh; are not they which eat of the sacrifices
partakers of the altar?” “Now, I ask,” I said
to them, “what was it that Israel eat, the altar or
the sacrifices?” They said: “The sacrifices;” but
they said it reluctantly. “That is right,” said I;
“yet they were partakers of the altar: so it is also
with those who help to break or eat the bread; they
eat only bread, and are yet partakers of the body
of Christ.” I asked whereby he would maintain his
mass. He brought forward the passage, 1 Corinthians
11:24: “This do in remembrance of me.”
By this he maintained his mass. “Well, there is
nothing said about a mass,” said I. This was his
defense of the mass. I asked him whether a man
might be apprehended for his faith. He affirmed it.
I said: “Paul certainly says: A man that is a heretic,
after the first and second admonition, reject;
but he says nothing about apprehending.” Titus
3:10. “It is written,” said the priest, “that the
magistracy does not bear the sword in vain.” “Yes,”
said I, “for the punishment of the evil, and for the
protection of the good; but what evil have I done?”
They said: “You have adhered to false doctrine,
and attended assemblies that are opposed to the
Roman religion, which the king will not tolerate,
for he wants to protect his country; for it was seen
what those of Munster did; their object was to capture
cities, and to deprive the king of his country.”
Ans. “The Munsterites did wrong; have you heard
such things of me? I have never in my life known
the Munsterites.” “No; but the Munsterites sprang
from you.” “Well then, it would have been time
enough for you to apprehend me, when you had
heard such things of me; for no one can be burned
justly, except he first have done evil himself, and
not on account of another.” But the priest strenuously
defended the authorities in this; that a man
might be apprehended for his faith. I said: “Christ
certainly said to his servants, when they wanted to
root up the tares, that they should not do it, but
that they should let both grow together till the day
of harvest.” Matt. 13:30. The priest said: “But
one can go and root up the tares along the edge,
without injuring the good.” Ans. “Christ commands
not to do it, but to let it grow.” But the
priest constantly charged it upon the magistracy,
that the apprehending was their work, just as
though the ministers of the Romish church had
been without guilt in the matter. I then asked them
whether my lord the Bailiff of Delft, who was with
us, was a brother and minister in their church.
This I asked him many times; but the priest would
not give me a clear answer with regard to it, but
jumped from one thing to another. However, I did
not desist, until he made a definite answer, which
he did, but with great reluctance. When the Bailiff
saw that we disputed so warmly, he came and stood
before us, and listened with close attention; then
I pressed the matter only the harder. Finally he
said: “Yes.” “Then you acknowledge him as a
brother and minister in your church?” “Yes,” said
the priest. “Well then, now I desire you to show
me where the apostles had magistrates in their
church, who protected the faith with fire, water and
the sword, as you do.” This he could not prove to
me, but came with the passage in Acts 23, where
Paul was imprisoned, and more than forty men had
vowed neither to eat nor to drink till they should
have killed Paul. Paul’s sister’s son hearing this,
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made it known to Paul, and Paul sent him to the
chief captain, that he should tell it to him. And
when the chief captain heard it, he said to two other
captains, that they should make ready the beasts,
and set Paul thereon, and bring him safe unto Felix
the Governor; with two hundred soldiers, three-score
and ten horsemen, and two hundred spear-men.

Thereupon I replied: “Paul was then a prisoner,
and that magistrate was an unbeliever; but show
me once where they had magistrates in their
church.” “Yes.” said the priest, “if unbelievers
did this, how much more believers.” I asked where
the apostles had baptized bells. He said: “We
do not baptize bells.” “What do you teach them
then?” said I. He said that they blessed or exorcised
them, if I have remembered his words correctly;
“For,” said he, “Satan is much in such
things;” and he related how he had reigned in
the New Church, and therefore this was done, as
he said; and there was a great deal said.

I said to him that I had never read that the apostles
had magistrates in the church, who protected
their faith with the sword; but that I had read that
Paul says: “We wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers, against
the rulers of the darkness of this world.” Then the
priest started up, and asked where this was written.
“In Eph. 6:12,” said I. Then he took up his
Testament, and looked for it, and having read it
he said: “This Paul says of the devil; he is the
prince of this world.” I said: “It is the magistracy
of this world, who rule the world, for it speaks of
principalities and lords of this world.” And there
fell many words, the Bailiff listening with attention.
The priest said that our faith had not existed long,
but that their faith had endured fifteen hundred
years, and though whole countries were apostatizing
from it, said he, whole countries were being converted
in India, and that many great signs and
miracles occurred there, even as occurred in the
time of Christ, so that the Christians were increasing.
Then I said: “Does that occur there, and
not here? the church is certainly also here in these
lands, and there are pastors in Delft, and in other
cities hereabout, as well as there.” He said, it was
certainly true. “Yes,” said I, “Pharaoh’s magicians
also imitated what Moses did.” “Yes,” said
the priest, “that was so, but they did not do such
things as occurred there.” Then I said: “Well then,
I will adduce to you still more: we read that there
was a sorceress, who caused Samuel to come forth
from the grave, and Samuel talked with her or with
Saul, 1 Sam. 28. “That is true,” said the Bailiff;
“I have read that.” Then said I, “Christ himself
also says that they shall say: Lord, have we not
in thy name cast out devils? But he shall answer
them: Depart from me; I know you not.” Matthew
7:22,23. Then the Bailiff said: “Jan Hendrickss
does not believe it; do you, Jan Hendrickss?”
“No; Sir Bailiff,” said I, there is so much villiany
perpetrated.” “Yes,” said the priest, “there has
much indeed been done that was not good;” and
he related that there had been popes who had not
done what was good, but what was wrong. This
the priest himself acknowledged; but there was
now,” said he, “an old, able man Pope, of whom
much good was said, and he confessed that there
were bad abuses among them. “Paul says,” said I,
“that the old leaven ought to be purged out, and
that if any man that is called a brother be a drunkard,
or a railer, or a fornicator, with such a one we
ought to have nothing to do;” but of this, as it
seemed, he had little understanding. “Indeed,”
said the Bailiff, “if there were a man who would
have to do with another man’s wife, I should not
want to have anything to do with him.”

The priest then I think asked me why I had left
them? I said that I had indeed heard the priests
preach a great deal, very severely censuring popery,
but that they did not practice what they preach;
that they drank to such an excess as to fight, strike
and rave as though they had been madmen, and for
this reason I left. This I confessed to him because
the Bailiff was present; when there were no lords
present, I did not wish to bring up their things. I
said: “They always want to instruct us in prison;
they ought to set us at liberty, and then instruct us;”
but of this nothing was said. And having thus many
words together, I asked the Bailiff, saying: “Sir
Bailiff, I must ask you something: if I should renounce
my faith: however I do not say that I shall
do that.” “Well,” said the Bailiff, “I do not say
it either, that you do.” “But if I did, would you
assure me of my life, and release me:” “This I will
not say, but I still say as my lords said, that we will
do our best in that respect.” “Yes, Sir Bailiff,”
said I, “what would that signify; it has happened
that persons have renounced their faith, and were
put to death notwithstanding, as has been seen in
Delft,” “Yes,” said the Bailiff, “some were also released.”
This I had to ask him once, to hear what
he would say; for we had talked about it together.
Not that we intended to renounce our faith, but to
hear what they would say. For it has never been
my mind, nor have I ever had any inclination for it;
but it afforded me a good reason, when they tormented
us to renounce, to give them this for an answer.
Why should we renounce our faith? our life is
not assured us. We had many words together, but
these are the principal things that were said which I
have remembered, for my memory is not strong.
If I were to write everything, I should require much
paper, for it lasted full four hours. In consequence
of its lasting so long, my fellow brethren were very
sorrowful, for they thought and believed that I had
been confined elsewhere away from them.

The Bailiff then rang the bell, and the beadles
came. I then said to the priest: “If my lord had
not been present, I would not have made so
many words with you.” “That I believe,” said the
priest. I took off my cap and bade them good evening,
and they me. And I said to the pastor and
begged him, that if I had spoken any word too
hastily, he should excuse me for it. “Yes,” said
the Bailiff, “and so do you to him, do you not?”
“Yes,” said I: and thus we parted.

It further happened that they confined us all three
in separate places, apart from one another, and
took away the Bible from us, one which they themselves
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had let us have, and which the Bailiff had
previously consented that we might have; but we
remained of very good cheer, the Lord be praised.

On Sunday, the 16th of July, 1570, I was taken
down again, and they tied my arms, which they
had never done before, for I had gone down with
the jailer, fettered together with another. This surprised
me much, whereupon the beadles told me,
that the priests had required it of the Bailiff. Thus
they brought me before two priests, namely, Mr.
Maerten, and the pastor of the New Church, who
had once before been to see me. When I came to
them, I bade them good day, and they returned
the salutation. Then they said: “We have visited
you once, and now we come again, to see whether
you are not more willing to yield, than you were the
other time.” I said: “I say as I have already said:
If it can be proved to me clearly and expressly, that
infants were baptized, I will gladly suffer myself to
be instructed:” With this answer they were not
well pleased, since they have no Scripture for it.
But they asserted that I must suffer myself to be instructed,
and that infants had of a long time been
baptized in the Christian church; and that it had always
been an ordinance; but I held to the proof
furnished by the practice of the apostles. They
said that we ought to walk in the old paths. “Yes,
in the right ones,” said I; “thus it is written.”
Jer. 6:16. They had come to instruct me. “Yes,”
said I, “I cannot understand it so.” This they did
not like to hear, that I could not understand it; and
they said: “You want to understand it before
you accept it.” “It is written,” said he, “in the
prophet Isaiah, that we must first accept it, before
we believe it.” “Where is this written?” said I.
“I do not know,” said the priest. “Rom. 10:10,”
said I, “we read: ‘With the heart man believeth
unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession
is made unto salvation.’ I must certainly believe
your things with the heart, if I am to accept them:
but now I cannot understand it as you do.” This
they would not hear; but if I had soundly assented
with the mouth to what they said, whether I had
believed it or not, it would have been all right.

They begged me much, that I should suffer my
self to be instructed, there was not a day that they
did not pray for us. They also frequently said that
I had strange views, and that I was damned; if I
were not damned, God would not be God, he said;
and the Scriptures would not be true; this he often
said. To be damned, and to lie in prison, these are
not good things, said I; for I said as little to them
as I could. But the damning did not hurt me; I let
them say on. I said: “If you can prove to me, that
infants were baptized, I would like to hear it.”
They said that whole households were baptized, and
declared that there must have been children there.
Ans. That you do not know, for there are households
in which are no children; I also do not seek
salvation from the water.” When they heard this
they were greatly astonished. “Yes,” said I, “you
say that all unbaptized children are damned.”
“Yes,” said the priest, “they are damned.” “Then
the women who give birth to such children are
badly off.” “Yes,” said the priest. “Indeed,”
said I, “then the water must wash away sin?”
“Yes,” said they. Ans. “I shall prove to you,
that it does not.” I then told them, that in Peter
3:21 it is written: “ ‘The like figure whereunto even
baptism doth also save us, not the putting away of
the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience.’
And the apostle baptized Simon the sorcerer
but the water did not remove his sins, for it is
written that he was in the gall of bitterness, and in
the bond of iniquity, though he had been baptized by
the apostles.” “You say of Peter,” said the priest,
“that he writes this; how do you know if it is true?
Did Peter tell you himself? And Simon the sorcerer
was a worthless fellow for if the apostles
had known that his heart was in this condition,
they would rather have bitten their fingers, than
pronounced the name of God over him.” Ans.
“This I admit; but the water did nevertheless not
wash away his sins.” And they asserted that I must
suffer myself to be instructed, and said that I acted
contrary to the Scriptures, for it is written, Matthew
18: If thy brother shall trespass against thee,
rebuke him; and if he will not hear thee, tell it to
the college. “See,” said they “You will not hear
us now that we rebuke you; in this you certainly
act contrary to the Scriptures.” Ans. “What
would you teach me then? Would you let me go
then, and shun me as a heathen and a publican?”
“No, no,” said the priest, “this is your favorite
theme, which you always bring up.” (for I had had
many words with him in regard to it the last time;)
but to let me go was not in their power, he said. Ans.
“Christ certainly says, when they are reproved, and
will not hear, they are to be shunned, and not apprehended.
And Paul also says: A man that is a
heretic, after the first and second admonition, reject.
Tit. 3:10. And now I will not hear you, hence you
ought to let me go.” But they did not listen to this
that was the magistracy’s business, they said. Ans.
“You certainly have a faith; show me once where
the apostles had magistrates in their church.

Then the priest said that Peter had killed two persons.
Ans. “You cannot prove that to me, neither
by word nor deed.” Then he read from a German
Testament, that Ananias and his wife sold their possessions;
and did not bring all and lay it at the apostles’
feet, but kept back a part of it. Then Peter
said: Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart
to lie to the Holy Ghost? thou hast not lied unto
men, but unto God. When Ananias heard these
words, he fell down and gave up the ghost. Three
hours after his wife came, and Peter asked her too,
whether they had sold the land for so much. She
said: Yea. Peter said to her: How is it that you
have agreed together to tempt the spirit of the
Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried
thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee
out. Then fell she down straightway at his feet and
yielded up the ghost. Acts 5. When he had read,
I said: “Who can say that Peter did it, for it reads
that when they heard these words they gave up the
ghost.” We had many words which I have partly
forgotten; they begged me to suffer myself to be instructed.
“Well,” said I, “I can not understand
it so.” To this they would not listen, that I would
895
first understand it, before I accepted it; and they
said that their faith had always existed for fifteen
hundred years; they would show to me from year to
year, how their church had been built up, and they
named to me many of their teachers or bishops,
Augustine and others; how it first came from Spain
into France, whence St. Willeboort brought it into
these countries; and many other things did they tell
me. And though whole countries apostatized from
them, there were large countries again that adopted
their faith, as for instance in India, where the Lord
did great signs, so that there were persons who in
one month learned another language, and accepted
the faith, and even preached within one month; and
many other things they told me. I asked whether
that country was large. They said: “As large as
Spain, France, Germany and this country taken
together.” Thus their faith had always existed,
and could not perish, for Christ had said: “I will be
with you unto the end of the world;” but our
faith had not existed so long; for [said they] you
can not prove to us, that your church has always
existed. “I know,” said the priest, “that you will
name to me five or six persons.” Then I said; It
would have been much better, if he had heard Micaiah,
than the four hundred false prophets. (The
king of Judah, 1 Kings, 22.) They tried hard to
draw me out, as to whether I was baptized, but the
Lord kept my lips, and I did not tell them. They
had heard it said, they told me. I asked whether
they had heard me say it. They said: “No.” I
replied: “I do not want to tell you either.” They
said: “We do not wish to know it.”

And when they found that I would not listen to
them, they told me time and again that I was
damned, and that I was a murderer of souls, that I
had murdered many souls, and they had heard it
said that I had caused many to apostatize from the
Roman church. I said: “I have murdered no one’s
soul.” He said: “You say that we are murderers
ourselves.” I said: “You have not heard me say
that.” They told me to consider the matter, and if I
desired it, they would come again. Thus we parted
amicably.

These are the principal points of our conversation,
for it lasted about two hours. I should not be able
to write the whole of it, for I can not remember it,
and it would be impossible for me to give the exact
conversation, without leaving out or adding to it.

Written by me, Jan Hendrickss.





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Page: http://history.truechristian.church/stories/mm-some-examinations-of-jan-hendrickss/

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