Disputation Between Herman Vleckwijk, Imprisoned By The Lords Of The Country Van Den Vrye In Bruges, And Friar Cornelis, In The Presence Of Mr. Jan Van Dam, On The 1oth Of May, A. D. 1569.

Herm. Christ also says, John 6:46: “Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of the Father, he hath seen the Father.” Again, John 1:18: “No man hath seen God at any time.” Again, John 14:28: “For my Father is greater than I.” Again, Mark 13:32: “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” From this it is sufficiently shown that the Father himself did not become flesh.

Fr. Corn. Bah, this you need not teach me; for I say myself that Christ, the second person in the Godhead, or of the holy Trinity, became man, whom you will not call God; do you understand this, you accursed Trinitarian that you are?

Herm. I call him the Son of the living God, as Peter called him (Matt. 16:16), and Lord, as the apostles call him.

Fr. Corn. O you accursed Trinitarian, I could jump out of my skin for anger, that I could.

Herm. Then you must jump out of your skin, when in the second chapter of the Acts of the apostles (verse 22), you read that Peter calls him but a man of God, saying: “Jesus of Nazareth, a man310 approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him.” Again, in the same chapter (verse 32): “This Jesus hath God raised up.” Again, in the third chapter (verse 15): “Whom God hath raised from the dead.” Again, in Acts 4:10: “Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead.” Again, Paul (Acts 17:31) says: “Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”

Fr. Corn. Yes, yes, tush, tush, tush, bah! these are the same arguments which this damned Erasmus prefers, in his book, de modo orandi, and in Apologia ad Episcopum Hispalensem, Alphonsum Mauricum. But you Trinitarian, if you will call Christ only the Son of God, you do not esteem him better than Adam; for Luke says in his third chapter, that Adam also was the son of God. Bah! see once, with what we are tormented.

Herm. That be far from us, that we should not esteem Christ better than Adam; for because we believe, that the body of Christ is not earthy of the earth, as was Adam the first man, but that he is a heavenly man, as Paul writes in the fifteenth chapter of his first epistle to the Corinthians; therefore we are put to death by you; hence you yourselves do not esteem him better than Adam.

Fr. Corn. O you accursed Trinitarian, how the devil does wag your tongue. Bah, if you will not believe, that Christ is truly man, and if you will also not believe, that he is the true God, what * * * is he then?

Herm. Do not talk so unbecomingly; for Christ is no devil; but he is the true Son of God, as John writes in the fifth chapter of his first epistle; and he is also a true man, as Paul writes in the fifth chapter of his epistle to the Romans.

Fr. Corn. Bah, but does not St. John in the same chapter say of the Son: “This is the true God;” eh?

Herm. No, for John says: We know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know the true God, and that we should be in his true Son. This is the true God, and eternal life. Hereby John means this true God whom the Son taught us to know.

Fr. Corn. Bah, you Trinitarian; now it occurs to me that St. John says in the same chapter: There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. Bah, here you are soundly cornered, poor Trinitarian that you are.

Herm. I have often heard it said, that Erasmus in his Annotations charges you papists with having interpolated these words, and that they are not contained in the Greek text, even as you people have taken out and added many other things in the holy Scriptures.

Fr. Corn. Bah, may the fire of hell forever burn and torment you with your devilish, damned, accursed heretic Erasmus. Bah, I could tear my cap for anger, that I could.

Herm. Why then do you not tear your cap, when you read that Greek text yourself, and see that this is not contained in it?

Fr. Corn. Bah, my lords, what do you think of this—am I wrong in so sharply attacking in my sermons this damned heretic, this wicked Trinitarian 760 Erasmus? For it is true, this he writes; yea, what is still worse, in his Annotations to the fourth chapter of St. Luke he has written, that a very great and strange corruption has been wrought in the holy Scriptures in the Greek and Latin copies, that sometimes something is added and interpolated and sometimes something taken away, omitted, and erased, on account of the heretics: yea, that the marginal notes which were now and then written by one or the other have all been foisted into the text, my lords, is it not a fine thing?