Disputation Between Jacob De Keersgieter And Mr. Friar Cornelis, A Franciscan Monk; In The Presence Of Mr. Jan Van Damme, Recorder, And Mr. Michiel Houwaert, Clerk Of The Criminal Court, On The 9th Of May, A. D. 1569.306

Jac. I too believe that Paul thereby means antichrist. But does not the Pope of Rome do the very works of antichrist? Does he not command you, that you are not to marry? Does he not command you to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which be 743lieve? as Paul writes in the fourth chapter of his first epistle to Timothy.

Fr. Corn. The devil sits in your cheeks; the devil and his mother play with your ugly mouth, that you know how to twist all the holy Scriptures according to your heretical notions, and to turn them on your thumb. But just wait, I shall show you very well, that our holy father the Pope is the vicar of God: for did not Christ say to St. Peter; “Feed my sheep;” and that upon him he would build his church? And did he not also give to St. Peter the keys of heaven, and all priestly authority, to loose from sin, and to bind, or to remit and to retain? And do not the holy popes sit upon the same seat, as successors of St. Peter, and have the same command and the priestly authority of the keys of heaven, to forgive sins and to retain them, through absolution after confession? What do you say to this now? let us hear.

Jac. Christ said, that upon this rock (that is, upon such a faith as Peter confessed, Matt. 17:16) he would build his church; he said nothing about a seat, or of vicars, or of successors, or popes, or of priestly authority.

Fr. Corn. He certainly spoke of the keys of heaven, and of loosing and binding. And if there were no pope, or high priest, nor sub-priests who then should have the authority, to hear confession, to absolve, and to forgive sins? scavengers, etc., I suppose.

Jac. Christ is our only true high-priest, as Paul writes to the Hebrews, in the 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th chapters.

Fr. Corn. That is just where I wanted to have you; for if St. Paul thereby means that besides Christ no other high priests or common priests are necessary, why then does he say in the fourth chapter of the first epistle to the Corinthians: I will that every one so account of us, as of Christ’s priests over the sacraments of God? that is, administer the sacraments of the altar, of baptism, of confirmation, of extreme unction, of marriage, of confession and absolution, of penitence, and of consecrating and anointing priests. What do you hold concerning priestly estate, or the sacrament of the priesthood? Let us hear.

Jac. Next to Christ, we believers in Christ are all priests alike, according to the words of Peter in the second chapter (9th verse) of his first epistle, where he says to the believers in Christ: “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation.” Again, Rev. 1:5,6: “Christ who loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father.” Again, Rev. 5:9,10: “For thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us [to God] by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests.”

Fr. Corn. Tush, tush! now you begin to preach again, do you? keep silence, or reply to me in regard to what St. Paul writes in the fourth chapter of his first epistle to the Corinthians: I will that every one so account of us, as of Christ’s priests over the sacraments of God. Answer to this. * * *

Jac. With your permission, Paul does not write as you say, and hence there is nothing to answer to it.

Fr. Corn. O you cursed Anabaptist that you are; I could swear by the saints, that St. Paul writes as I say: what do you say of this accursed, hellish, devilish heretic?

Jac. The Lord God forgive you this judging and cursing, and do not account it to your own condemnation. Christ also says (Matt. 5), do not swear an oath; but let your communication be, Yea, yea, Nay, nay.

Fr. Corn. Bah, this means that one is not to swear a false oath; but what I would swear is true. But you Anabaptists also have the fancy, that you are not to swear any manner of oaths. Bah, what a lousy fancy this is! I should like to hear why one may not swear a good oath.

Jac. Because Christ, in Matt. 5, says: “Ye have heard that it hath been said to them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: but I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne: nor by the earth; for it is his footstool. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.” In like manner, also James says, in the fifth chapter (v. 12): “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay: lest you fall into condemnation.”