Disputation Between Jacob De Keersgieter And Mr. Friar Cornelis, A Franciscan Monk; In The Presence Of Mr. Jan Van Damme, Recorder, And Mr. Michiel Houwaert, Clerk Of The Criminal Court, On The 9th Of May, A. D. 1569.306

Fr. Corn. Is it true? in this you would follow St. James; but when he in the same chapter speaks of the sacrament of extreme unction, saying: Is any sick, call for the priests of the church, and cause him to be anointed; and also, where, in the same chapter, he speaks of the sacrament of confession; herein you heretics are not willing to follow him. I have asked you once or twice, what you think of confession, and of the power of absolution, or remission and retention of sins; but you do not reply to me in regard to this.

Jac. You answer yourself, saying: “Who then should have the authority of hearing confession, absolving, and forgiving sins? scavengers, etc., I suppose.” For since you supposed the same I left it to you to answer.

Fr. Corn. Well, answer me then now, what you think of the sacrament of confession and absolution.

Jac. My answer is: If you would take and understand confession (which you papists now use) from the fifth chapter of James, you must also confess your sins to him that confesses his sins to you; for James says: “Confess your faults one to another.” Now if I confess to you all my sins, will you also confess your sins to me? I think not, and that you yourself would much rather acknowledge and say, that James did not mean such a confession as you papists now employ.

Fr. Corn. * * * You accursed Anabaptist that you are. You seek nothing but to tangle up everything that is advanced against you—the devil wags your tongue. But let us hear what you can say 744 against this, where Christ says: “Go and show yourselves to the priests.” Matt. 8:4.

Jac. This Christ said to those whom he had healed and cleansed from leprosy, that they should go and show their bodies to the priests and let them see, that they were clean again, in order that they might go among the people again, from whom they had been separated on account of their leprosy. Matthew 8:4; Luke 17:14.

Fr. Corn. * * * Bah, it was plainly said: Go and confess to the priest; for so our mother the holy Catholic Roman church understands it. This was the reason why Christ gave his vicar, St. Peter the keys, that he might also have the power to bind and loose from sin, or to forgive and to retain, after confession as I told you. Hence, answer me once, but in a few words, without much preaching, see!

Jac. From this power of the keys, which Christ gave Peter, it is not to be understood, that you priests in popery have power to forgive or to retain sin.

Fr. Corn. Is it true? would accursed heretic say that the power which Christ gave his successor or vicar, St. Peter, does not pertain to us priests? What! no! do not the popes, as the successors of St. Peter, who sit in his seat, and we priests, still have the power as well as did the scribes and Pharisees, as the successors of Moses, who at the time of Christ still sat in Moses’ seat? of whom Christ says, in the twenty-third chapter (vs. 1, 2) of Matthew’s gospel: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat: all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do. What do you say to this, eh? Let us hear it.

Jac. With your permission, but do not get angry; for I should have been afraid of incurring your abuse, if I had compared you to the scribes and Pharisees; but since you compare yourselves to them, I will reply to you. What Christ means is this: Whatsoever they command you to do from the law of Moses, that do. But he also commands his disciples, in Matt. 16:6, that they should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees. And though the Pharisees and scribes should have boasted themselves of the power which Moses had, as you priests boast of having the power which Peter received from Christ, of forgiving sin, who would have believed the Pharisees? since Christ pronounces woe over them so many times, Matt. 23: “Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayers. Woe unto you,” etc.

Fr. Corn. Fie, tush, tush; hear all this preaching. Bah, I know myself quite well, that Christ cries woe, woe, but do you think, that I have come here to hear preaching? I can preach myself, that I can.